The 41 refugee thread
08-04-10, 05:45 PM
#126
My idea of fun
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,920
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times
in
36 Posts
You might want to go read the power training thread though..
08-04-10, 05:47 PM
#127
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
read that. tl;dr: normalized takes power into account, 500w for 10s is more demanding than 50w for 100s, for example, while average is just that, an overall average with all power values weighted equally.
08-04-10, 05:48 PM
#128
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 28,387
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I wouldn't normalized power is better, it is used for a different purpose. Average power is the real work that you did, Normalized power is an estimation of the metabolic stress on your body. It is calculated with a rolling 30 second average of power^4. This magnifies (rewards) spikes in power and lessens dips in power. Very steady state power output will have NP=AP and very "spikey" power will have NP much higher than AP.
08-04-10, 05:52 PM
#129
**** that
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
30 Posts
If you want to feel great about a race/workout, look at NP.
If you want the real story, and be humbled, look at AP.
Having said that, NP is useful for calc'ing TSS.
If you want the real story, and be humbled, look at AP.
Having said that, NP is useful for calc'ing TSS.
08-04-10, 05:55 PM
#130
Mr. Dopolina
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times
in
41 Posts
i have a question.
what is the angle of your foot at the bottom of your pedal stroke. i rode with my rode nazi friends a few weeks ago and they got me to lower my seat so i could get a bit of ankle down action and it really helped. i had felt my seat was a teeny bit high but not enough to cause hip rocking. the lowering was tiny, but the ankle down really added a noticeable amount of power on the climb. it works for me but i wonder if this is what most people do.
what is the angle of your foot at the bottom of your pedal stroke. i rode with my rode nazi friends a few weeks ago and they got me to lower my seat so i could get a bit of ankle down action and it really helped. i had felt my seat was a teeny bit high but not enough to cause hip rocking. the lowering was tiny, but the ankle down really added a noticeable amount of power on the climb. it works for me but i wonder if this is what most people do.
"Ankling" (heel down) goes in and out of vogue all the time.
Personally I think it is silly to subscribe to only one method (and impossible to do).
I drop my heels for added power but it is also a product of a more rearward position on the saddle. As I scoot back I get behind the pedal more and power over the top. Seated climbing would be a good example.
If I am on top of the gear, while spinning out of a corner say, I move forward to the nose and my toe tends to go down. I'm not sure why this is but I think it is a product of a much higher cadence or a burst of leg speed. Seated sprinting comes to mind.
08-04-10, 06:26 PM
#132
Draught
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051
Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This thread is actually pretty dang good. It's like a "so you wanted to jump in the 33 but were afraid there might be sharks circling so swim here because we have a anti shark net off the beach" thread.
08-04-10, 06:41 PM
#134
Mr. Dopolina
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times
in
41 Posts
Look at the head tube angle, the trail (a product of head tube angle and fork rake) and the overall shorter wheelbase. That's where the twitchiness comes from.
As to what denotes a crit frame consider this and also the seat tube angle where 73~73.5 deg is normal. By comparison a classic Italian road racing frame may be 72.5~73 deg with the 72.5 having a longer top tube and chain stays (and thereby wheelbase) and being considered more forgiving if you are spending hours in the saddle. Carbon has offset that a bit since these concepts were developed when steel was the material of choice.
A crit frame may also have less BB drop. By this I mean the BB will be farther from the ground. This lets you pedal through corners more often in is beneficial for crits where you can do 100+ corners in a race.
A desirable byproduct of these factors is the movement of the rear wheel more under your butt. This , IMHO, offers a better power transfer and is useful for sprinting where again, in a crit, depending on conditions and your technique, you could easily do 100+ sprints or accelerations in a crit.
Hope that answers you question.
As to what denotes a crit frame consider this and also the seat tube angle where 73~73.5 deg is normal. By comparison a classic Italian road racing frame may be 72.5~73 deg with the 72.5 having a longer top tube and chain stays (and thereby wheelbase) and being considered more forgiving if you are spending hours in the saddle. Carbon has offset that a bit since these concepts were developed when steel was the material of choice.
A crit frame may also have less BB drop. By this I mean the BB will be farther from the ground. This lets you pedal through corners more often in is beneficial for crits where you can do 100+ corners in a race.
A desirable byproduct of these factors is the movement of the rear wheel more under your butt. This , IMHO, offers a better power transfer and is useful for sprinting where again, in a crit, depending on conditions and your technique, you could easily do 100+ sprints or accelerations in a crit.
Hope that answers you question.
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 08-04-10 at 08:05 PM.
08-04-10, 06:45 PM
#135
Senior Member
08-04-10, 06:46 PM
#136
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
08-04-10, 07:53 PM
#137
stole your bike
yeah, it's what the 41 could be without the stupid factor.
__________________
I like pie
I like pie
08-04-10, 07:57 PM
#138
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I never see full fingers at my races, have I just missed it? The scabs just came off my knuckles from when I crashed early July. My half finger gloves basically disintigrated on impact, though my bibs and jersey held up very well. Are there half fingers that offer more protections than others?
08-04-10, 08:06 PM
#139
**** that
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
30 Posts
Are there half fingers that offer more protections than others?
08-04-10, 08:13 PM
#140
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,976
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11950 Post(s)
Liked 6,595 Times
in
3,463 Posts
{sigh}
You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?
Yaaaa!!
Duuuuh!!
So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!
This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.
You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?
Yaaaa!!
Duuuuh!!
So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!
This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
08-04-10, 08:18 PM
#141
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 28,387
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Billy, if you don't see that there is a different temperament in this forum vs the road cycling forum, then I don't know what to say.
08-04-10, 08:22 PM
#142
stole your bike
{sigh}
You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?
Yaaaa!!
Duuuuh!!
So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!
This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.
You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?
Yaaaa!!
Duuuuh!!
So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!
This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.
I suppose I should have elaborated because you're taking my comment somewhere it doesn't need to go. I generally enjoy the 41 and post there regularly, but lately it seems like the posts become pissing contests all too quickly, and there are a lot more that read like notes passed between HS students which is why I haven't been as interested in posting there. Your response exemplifies the type of ridiculous posts I've been looking to get away from, but alas here we are. Thanks for the unnecessary lesson on intrawebz accessibility.
__________________
I like pie
I like pie
08-04-10, 08:42 PM
#143
Senior Member
Good thread. My only chance of posting in the 33 since I am not planning to race 
08-04-10, 08:44 PM
#144
Senior Member
What percent of the racers at a typical race are women? I want to get into it, but I don't want to be the only one. It would be intimidating.
08-04-10, 08:47 PM
#145
coffee-stained punk
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
women have their own category...field sizes vary depending on location and course...go spectate at a few races and see if it peaks your interest.
08-04-10, 08:51 PM
#146
Senior Member
08-04-10, 08:52 PM
#147
fuggitivo solitario
08-04-10, 08:53 PM
#148
fuggitivo solitario
08-04-10, 09:09 PM
#149
Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Seriously though, as a mod you have to be at least somewhat cognizant of the difference of tone in this subforum. People have come here asking pretty basic questions that they couldn't get answered without an 70/30 BS to answer level in the road bike forum..basic road bike questions for gods sake. I used to spend a lot of time in the road forum but over the past year it's just completely gone off the rails. Most of the Road Race Forum regulars feel the same way. Many won't post there anymore, guys who have years of experience and could offer solid advice.
08-04-10, 09:10 PM
#150
Senior Member
