Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-18-10, 08:36 PM   #276
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdays View Post
Everyone says java is easy to pick up, but I had the opposite experience.

I still don't understand how arrays work.
Java & related languages are easier to pick up than say C/C++ or LISP, but it still may not be easy.

They are easier since you don't have to worry about dereferncing pointers or null-terminating strings, two huge gotchas in unmanaged/native languages.

As for Verilog, etc, I'm with ya: ugh!
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:38 PM   #277
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
I have a really weird one.

Many years ago (mid-1970's) I was working for an engineering firm in Chicago doing some heat transfer calcs. They had access to a computer somewhere and I would dial in on an acoustic coupler modem. I thought that my code was correct (in some bastard language called "super" fortran), but it kept crashing. I put in all kinds of diagnostics (print out values of this and that, etc.) and when I did the code ran perfectly. I took them all out and it crashed.

Then I started taking out the diagnostic lines of code one by one. I could take them all out but one. If I took that line out the program crashed, but if I left it in the code ran just fine. It was a real head scratcher. Finally I replaced that line with a CONTINUE statement. And the code ran perfectly.

To this day have don't know for sure what was going on. But I was never fully confident of anything that came out of that computer after that.
Trace/debug/logging can definitely mess with threading-type issues, since your whole app will ususally block to write out the buffer.

So timing issues can arise by putting in or removing basic trace statements. Anyway, maybe your CONTINUE statement was like a NOOP that made the timing work out? Just a guess..
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:39 PM   #278
mollusk
Elite Fred
Thread Starter
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,754
I thought that Java was easy to pick up, but I learned C first.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:42 PM   #279
mollusk
Elite Fred
Thread Starter
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Trace/debug/logging can definitely mess with threading-type issues, since your whole app will ususally block to write out the buffer.

So timing issues can arise by putting in or removing basic trace statements. Anyway, maybe your CONTINUE statement was like a NOOP that made the timing work out? Just a guess..
This was a simple fortran type program with a single "thread". There were no multi-threading timing issues. Not like some of the VBScript code I used to write about 15 years ago. That was the total suck.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:43 PM   #280
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
I thought that Java was easy to pick up, but I learned C first.
I learned C and C++ before Java as well. When I started CS at UCSB in '97 they had just switched from Pascal to Java. It just seemed like castrated C++ to me.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:44 PM   #281
kudude
slow up hills
 
kudude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes: Giant TCR, Redline CX, Ritchey Breakaway, Spec S-works epic
Posts: 4,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
I have a really weird one.

Many years ago (mid-1970's) I was working for an engineering firm in Chicago doing some heat transfer calcs. They had access to a computer somewhere and I would dial in on an acoustic coupler modem. I thought that my code was correct (in some bastard language called "super" fortran), but it kept crashing. I put in all kinds of diagnostics (print out values of this and that, etc.) and when I did the code ran perfectly. I took them all out and it crashed.

Then I started taking out the diagnostic lines of code one by one. I could take them all out but one. If I took that line out the program crashed, but if I left it in the code ran just fine. It was a real head scratcher. Finally I replaced that line with a CONTINUE statement. And the code ran perfectly.

To this day have don't know for sure what was going on. But I was never fully confident of anything that came out of that computer after that.
memory issues.

bane of my existence
kudude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 08:49 PM   #282
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
I had a program that would always crash on one particular test machine. I figured that it must have been memory related and eventually convinced someone to replace the memory (it was expensive back then!). Problems gone.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:03 PM   #283
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by umd View Post
I noticed an arbitrary "4:" on one of the lines and I asked him why it was there.
He replied, "I don't know, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything".
I literally facepalmed.

That "4:" is a label. You can actually use old BASIC syntax like "GOTO 4" to jump to that line. It wasn't really "best practices" even for VB6.
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:05 PM   #284
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
That "4:" is a label. You can actually use old BASIC syntax like "GOTO 4" to jump to that line. It wasn't really "best practices" even for VB6.
I'm well aware. Hence the facepalm.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:10 PM   #285
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by umd View Post
I'm well aware. Hence the facepalm.
ok. i get it.

I love looking at other people's code. I always think...Is my code this crappy??
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:29 PM   #286
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCroadie View Post
Can any of you guys recommend a web monitoring tool, one that tracks what an end user does on the internet and can report back? One of my clients wants to watch his employees. I looked at work examiner, seems to have a bunch of bells and whistles but all I need is web monitoring. Many moons ago we used webtrends at work, other then that I haven't used anything.
Tell your client that any software you install would also track his usage. I bet he'll change his mind.
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:35 PM   #287
mollusk
Elite Fred
Thread Starter
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by kudude View Post
memory issues.

bane of my existence
That is what I figured. It led to ZERO confidence in anything spit out of that machine.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:38 PM   #288
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
That "4:" is a label. You can actually use old BASIC syntax like "GOTO 4" to jump to that line. It wasn't really "best practices" even for VB6.
keeping my thoughts to myself...
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:43 PM   #289
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
speaking of VB, my first introduction to programming (other than LOGO, haha..) was watching my buddy write a D&D character generator in VB - I suppose v2? - on his desktop while we downloaded Linux (slackware I think, kernel v .96) from AOL on to floppy disks. I actually have a pretty vivid memory of this.
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 09:51 PM   #290
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
keeping my thoughts to myself...
VB6 had it's uses. I was mostly stuck with it for a long time, and wrote a pretty robust set of libraries for it that did all kinds of API and memory hacks, including some pretty trick window subclassing and quasi-inheritance.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:02 PM   #291
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
keeping my thoughts to myself...
don't be a language snob. VB3-VB6 got the job done for millions of small/medium (and quite a few large) companies back in the day. Yes you could make a mess of things with it. But you can do that with any language. (I made quite a bit of money with it so I'm a bit prejudiced.)
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:02 PM   #292
mollusk
Elite Fred
Thread Starter
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
keeping my thoughts to myself...
I learned VB back in the early to mid 1990's. The reason was that I was running my department's first webserver off of my desktop and that was "running" Windows 3.1. I found that running CGI scripts in anything other than a "native" language would quickly crash the server due to horrible memory leakage and there wasn't that much memory in that old 486 machine. Each "call" invoked a virtual machine and you never did get all of the memory back. Can you imagine running Perl scripts in that environment? Running CGI's in VB solved that problem.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:10 PM   #293
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
yikes, i was just poking a bit of fun! ;p

i've got my opinions and preferences sure, but there's no way i could ever be a real language snob - not at the company i work for. we've got products dozens of years old with ingrained dependencies on languages that are even older.
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:13 PM   #294
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
I learned VB back in the early to mid 1990's. The reason was that I was running my department's first webserver off of my desktop and that was "running" Windows 3.1. I found that running CGI scripts in anything other than a "native" language would quickly crash the server due to horrible memory leakage and there wasn't that much memory in that old 486 machine. Each "call" invoked a virtual machine and you never did get all of the memory back. Can you imagine running Perl scripts in that environment? Running CGI's in VB solved that problem.
No mod_perl back then, I guess?
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:21 PM   #295
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
Sorry if this is old but it's good geek humor:

Step 1: Go to Google Maps.
Step 2: Write Japan as your departure point.
Step 3: Write United States as your arriving point.
Step 4: Get Directions

Read step No. 27
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:24 PM   #296
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
yikes, i was just poking a bit of fun! ;p

i've got my opinions and preferences sure, but there's no way i could ever be a real language snob - not at the company i work for. we've got products dozens of years old with ingrained dependencies on languages that are even older.
I used to be embarassed but now I don't care.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:25 PM   #297
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
don't be a language snob. VB3-VB6 got the job done for millions of small/medium (and quite a few large) companies back in the day. Yes you could make a mess of things with it. But you can do that with any language. (I made quite a bit of money with it so I'm a bit prejudiced.)
i don't disagree, you can shoot yourself and others in the foot with any language.
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:27 PM   #298
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
i don't disagree, you can shoot yourself and others in the foot with any language.
The problem with VB was that they were so concerned with not letting you shoot yourself in the foot that they locked the trigger and threw away the key.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:27 PM   #299
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
yikes, i was just poking a bit of fun! ;p
no problem. VB6 purchased the gold plated chip on my shoulder.
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-10, 10:27 PM   #300
slynkie
negligent.
 
slynkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Bikes: a few
Posts: 837
REXX got me my first raise.
slynkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 AM.