size down or size up?
#27
Senior Member
With your short legs/ long torso dimensions you need to be careful. People with average proportions and position just need to get in the ballpark for frame size and adjust the stem and saddle for fit. But your short legs would tend to put you on a small frame, while your long torso would put you on a large. And the big unknown here is that you don't really know how much drop you want, and what you've been accustomed to is very little. So forcing yourself into a lot of drop seems unwise... plus it may be impossible for you to get adequate reach on a small frame anyway.
The 59 has a 180mm headtube, which is 10mm less than your current frame. Plus you can get rid of the 40mm of spacers... plus if you need to you can get a horizontal stem to give you another 20mm of drop. That's 70mm more drop than you have now. I'd guess that 70mm is plenty of room to experiment, and you shouldn't have any reach issues with the 59 and normal stems (up to 130mm). I'd go with that one. Or at least the 57.
The 59 has a 180mm headtube, which is 10mm less than your current frame. Plus you can get rid of the 40mm of spacers... plus if you need to you can get a horizontal stem to give you another 20mm of drop. That's 70mm more drop than you have now. I'd guess that 70mm is plenty of room to experiment, and you shouldn't have any reach issues with the 59 and normal stems (up to 130mm). I'd go with that one. Or at least the 57.
#28
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'd still see if you can get on a fit bike and play with the measurements. Call CycleSport or someone local and throw them a few bucks to play on the adjustable bike, or go get a fit. I'm almost the exact same measurements, and inflexible as hell. I'm on a Felt 56cm with a 14cm headtube and 30mm of spacer/cone. I couldn't ride a 57+ comfortably at all. Every fit I've had, had come up with a 56cm TT and 100-110mm stem. The cost of a true fit would be beneficial in the fact that if you buy a Kestrel in a 57 and it's too big, you'll lose that money vs getting a fit and finding a bike that actually fits you.
Here's mine, which has a larger stack of spacers that I would like, but I'm inflexible and any longer would be uncomfortable to me.
Here's mine, which has a larger stack of spacers that I would like, but I'm inflexible and any longer would be uncomfortable to me.
#29
Senior Member
Maybe your "inflexibility" also effects your reach... as in a very rounded back? Is your neck unusually long? My buddy who is 5'9" and has short legs and a flat back, rides a 55 with a 140mm -17 stem. He is barely able to get both the drop and reach he wants with typical frames.
So yes... it's very individual.
Frankly, I think the OP should get a cheap adjustable stem and experiment with different bar positions on his current bike. At least then he'd have a better idea of where he wants to end up.
#30
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Yeah, I'm fat, have only ridden 10 times in the past year, I'm sick, I'm going to bed and my house is a mess. That should about cover it.
But here are a couple of pics. It's on the trainer with no shoes, but you get the point. It does look like my back is a bit rounded. Maybe that makes up for the shorter tt measurement. I don't know. I've been fit by a teammate "certified" by Serotta on a fit bike, one that uses plug in measurements like Competitive Cyclist and one from the local Tri guru who has done over 4,000 fits(now started his own company Veritas Fits) on a fit bike. Either way, from the first day I ever got on a bike a 56 just felt good. The 58 w/ 110 stem Fuji I borrowed to get into cycling just made me feel too stretched.
I am pedaling in the pics with light resistance.
But here are a couple of pics. It's on the trainer with no shoes, but you get the point. It does look like my back is a bit rounded. Maybe that makes up for the shorter tt measurement. I don't know. I've been fit by a teammate "certified" by Serotta on a fit bike, one that uses plug in measurements like Competitive Cyclist and one from the local Tri guru who has done over 4,000 fits(now started his own company Veritas Fits) on a fit bike. Either way, from the first day I ever got on a bike a 56 just felt good. The 58 w/ 110 stem Fuji I borrowed to get into cycling just made me feel too stretched.
I am pedaling in the pics with light resistance.
Last edited by cslone; 12-01-10 at 08:24 PM.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 369
Bikes: 2009 Felt F75, 2007 Trek 7.2FX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Your hips are really vertical, which necessarily pulls your shoulders back, resulting in a short reach feeling 'comfortable'. You actually look really cramped. If you were to rotate your hips forward in the saddle, your back would be flat(er) and you could accommodate a longer reach, and likely more drop as well.
Just my .02.
Just my .02.
#33
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I know I do. Evey pic I look at I feel that I look cramped. I can't figure it out and for some reason all three fits have put me on a 56. The only change I would think might work looking at that pic would be to a longer stem and drop some spacers. But again, I am totally inflexible. Last year I finally got to stretching religiously and at the end of the year was able to touch my toes. Once I had surgery and a bunch of setbacks, I gained a bunch of weight due to extreme inactivity, so I lost the flexibility and I got fat.
I was considering a Wobble Naught fit from a local guy, but then I think about how comfortable I am with my present setup, I hate to spend the money.
I was considering a Wobble Naught fit from a local guy, but then I think about how comfortable I am with my present setup, I hate to spend the money.
#34
Senior Member
That position is fine if it's comfortable... but your hoods position is very upright, and in the drops your arms seem cramped. I think it is less drop and reach than most would like. One crude rule of thumb is that the bars obscure the hub when in the drops. If you look at how most pros are set up, the reach is even greater than that.
#36
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
I'd still see if you can get on a fit bike and play with the measurements. Call CycleSport or someone local and throw them a few bucks to play on the adjustable bike, or go get a fit. I'm almost the exact same measurements, and inflexible as hell. I'm on a Felt 56cm with a 14cm headtube and 30mm of spacer/cone. I couldn't ride a 57+ comfortably at all. Every fit I've had, had come up with a 56cm TT and 100-110mm stem. The cost of a true fit would be beneficial in the fact that if you buy a Kestrel in a 57 and it's too big, you'll lose that money vs getting a fit and finding a bike that actually fits you.
Here's mine, which has a larger stack of spacers that I would like, but I'm inflexible and any longer would be uncomfortable to me.
Here's mine, which has a larger stack of spacers that I would like, but I'm inflexible and any longer would be uncomfortable to me.
I would suggest considering moving your riding position forward and rotating it clockwise. Here are John Cobb's thoughts on the idea.
Last edited by carleton; 11-28-10 at 04:18 PM.
#37
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
- Moving your saddle forward to around 5cm back from the BB spindle
- Raising your saddle slightly because you have to compensate for moving it forward.
- Extending and/or lowering your bars.
Horses for courses, of course.
#38
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
When I'm on my bike the front hub is obscured. That is how I was originally told how to "fit" a bike.
Carleton, my nose is around 62mm back, give or take a few mm based on not getting exactly the center of BB. I'm aware of the rotating forward as I come from a triathlon background. I'll push it forward a few cm tonight and drop a few spacers and see if anything changes. The funny thing is my TT position is excellent according to most people. I just can't get very low on my road bike, never really have been. These pics make me realize how far up in the air that I am.
Carleton, my nose is around 62mm back, give or take a few mm based on not getting exactly the center of BB. I'm aware of the rotating forward as I come from a triathlon background. I'll push it forward a few cm tonight and drop a few spacers and see if anything changes. The funny thing is my TT position is excellent according to most people. I just can't get very low on my road bike, never really have been. These pics make me realize how far up in the air that I am.
#39
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Jesus, Cobb went crazy with that stem change. I'll have to rotate forward and pull my cone/spacers and see what happens.
#40
Senior Member
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 369
Bikes: 2009 Felt F75, 2007 Trek 7.2FX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I can obscure my hub with my bars using a 90mm stem. All I have to do is rotate my hips way back and round my back.
Edit: It's a crappy rule of thumb anyway, but thats not the point of my post
Edit: It's a crappy rule of thumb anyway, but thats not the point of my post
#42
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Okay, so say I push my saddle 2 cm forward and a little up then get a 2cm longer stem(130mm), obviously this rotates me clockwise and flattens my back out, but doesn't the reach stay the same?
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 369
Bikes: 2009 Felt F75, 2007 Trek 7.2FX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You should start a fit/position help thread for yourself in the 41. Include a video, in your cycling gear.
#44
sittin' in
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Interesting in the video that at the end after she says it "feels good", she bails out of the drops for the hoods at the first chance she gets.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 369
Bikes: 2009 Felt F75, 2007 Trek 7.2FX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't get why that's so funny. This is another person's thread, and you're in your PJs.
#47
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Because I don't listen to about 85% of what goes on in there. There are a few people in this forum that know what they are talking about with fits. The 41 would be 121 replies with 6 constructive ones from the same people replying here.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
i didnt go that crazy, but i did co about 10mm lower and 20mm longer and it was a HUGE improvement. i used to get pack pain at about 20 miles but this year did a ~500mi week with zero back pain.
#49
Iconoclast
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 3,183
Bikes: Colnago Super, Fuji Opus III, Specialized Rockhopper, Specialized Sirrus (road)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ripoo82
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
12
11-05-14 10:47 AM
JAX_11
Road Cycling
29
10-09-12 06:55 PM