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  1. #1
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    e-wang measurements

    So it has come to the point that it would be good to know my 5 sec, 1 min, and 5min power outputs in addition to my 20min/FTP output. Coogan suggests doing all of these in one session, but I can't help thinking that those would not be my best. What do people here do for their power measuring? Do you split it up into two session in the same week or just go with Coogan?

    If you split them up, do you do the 5 sec, 1min, and 5min on one day and the 20min on another or do you use another combination? Also, Coogan suggests doing two 1-min sessions. Do you guys think it's necessary to do this?

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    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Coggan has his reasons for the protocol. Like getting rid of most of your anaerobic capacity (AWC) before doing the longer tests.

    So if you're wanting to do serious testing I'd try it. Remember that testing is training.

    But I am more motivated by group rides, so I cherry pick "good" segments from my rides and accept that it's not as accurate. I think it's more important to have a consistent method to do your tests, so the results aren't skewed so much by outside factors.

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    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    I never do those workouts as max tests..I do them in conjunction with hard workouts. My e-wang 1m number is 32w higher than what I consider my real 1m number. The e-wang number was done when I warmed up and did an all out effort. The real number came at the end of series of hard interval workouts..something that would be more representative of how I would feel in a race.

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    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    I think the point is to use your best numbers for each time period. Yes, you can't repeat your best 1' at the end of a race. That's what fatigue profile is for (see edition 2 of the book).

    Remember the e-wang chart is to see what your comparative strengths and weaknesses are, not for seeing what cat you're supposed to be in.

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    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    You could always try testing both ways and see what happens.
    cat 1.

    blog

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    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    I think the point is to use your best numbers for each time period. Yes, you can't repeat your best 1' at the end of a race. That's what fatigue profile is for (see edition 2 of the book).

    Remember the e-wang chart is to see what your comparative strengths and weaknesses are, not for seeing what cat you're supposed to be in.
    Yeah, but most people go out and put down a big number and mentally think that's their given power for the time period. Personally I like to know what I'm really capable of under stress.

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    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Guys, thanks for the answers.

    The reason why I was entertaining doing the 20 minute separate from all the other stuff is because my training zones will be based off of the estimated FTP, but i see the merit of doing the other measurements together, and i think that's how i'll actually approach it.

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    I've only ever tested 20 min and my "20 second" sprint (peak, 5 sec).

    I never go as hard for 20 min as I do in the test, ever, by maybe 20-30-40 watts. The rest of them I've always beaten my best "test" by a significant amount when I race. Well 1 min and 5 min. 10 min I never do either way, don't really care much about that one. It's too low to be good.

    On the other hand I think I've only come within 300w of my peak in a race (1550w peak, 1250w in a race) and missed my 5 sec max by about 200-300w in race conditions.

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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    Coggan has his reasons for the protocol. Like getting rid of most of your anaerobic capacity (AWC) before doing the longer tests.
    If I do an anaerobic effort it might diminish my anaerobic capacity slightly through muscular fatigue, but it certainly doesn't get rid of "most" of it.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    If I do an anaerobic effort it might diminish my anaerobic capacity slightly through muscular fatigue, but it certainly doesn't get rid of "most" of it.
    For me, it depends on how hard of an anaerobic effort I put out. A 1' test for me, and I'm down to 85% max for the rest of that day (regardless of recovery) if I do another 1' test. The next day, about 95% 1' test.

    5' tests, I can reproduce with a little more consistency. Of course, my 1' tests are pretty sensitive to random effects. A few bad pedal strokes can drop the average quite a bit, where my 5s are much more forgiving.

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    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    WR, do you find the doing of a 5' (and btw, this means 5 minutes, right?) affect your 20 minute efforts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcjimbosandwich View Post
    WR, do you find the doing of a 5' (and btw, this means 5 minutes, right?) affect your 20 minute efforts?
    I hit a new record on the 5' power today. Then went to do a 20 minute interval that was right on target. I would say the 5 minute helped get me warmed up, if anything.

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    Yep
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    I test my 20 min repeatedly throughout the season and use 95% of that as an FTP number for training. It's probably a tad high, but I'd rather that than too low. If I happen to get a better 20 min during racing/training, I adjust based on that new number, same with 1 min and 5 min. I'll adjust any of those numbers based on new results regardless of whether they came in testing or otherwise. I don't think it can be repeated too much that FTP is STRICTLY for training and for measuring effort in races. The important part is that you be consistent and honest.

    Maybe you'll disagree, but after having worked with power for 3+ seasons now, it's seems to me that you develop a pretty keen sense of when you've set your FTP correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanf
    its a start: 1. measure thighs 2. get on bike 3. win
    cat 2 - 1/30

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    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yep View Post
    I test my 20 min repeatedly throughout the season and use 95% of that as an FTP number for training. It's probably a tad high, but I'd rather that than too low. If I happen to get a better 20 min during racing/training, I adjust based on that new number, same with 1 min and 5 min. I'll adjust any of those numbers based on new results regardless of whether they came in testing or otherwise. I don't think it can be repeated too much that FTP is STRICTLY for training and for measuring effort in races. The important part is that you be consistent and honest.

    Maybe you'll disagree, but after having worked with power for 3+ seasons now, it's seems to me that you develop a pretty keen sense of when you've set your FTP correctly.
    Other than predicting the stock market what else would you use it for?

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    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I only use mine to judge myself against other people I'll never see or race against.

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    Senior Member Nate552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
    Other than predicting the stock market what else would you use it for?
    **** measuring contests on the internet of course.

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    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I only use mine to judge myself against other people I'll never see or race against.
    Same.

    I have to get ~5-10' at FTP for my warmup for a 20' test. Usually I'll try the test (I always try to negatively split a test). Fail the test, then restart a successful test.

    At least that's how I've been doing it recently.

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    i got nothing. Crash716's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I only use mine to judge myself against other people I'll never see or race against.
    on paper i should be a lot faster than I am in person.
    14 days...

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    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    On paper most guys in this forum should beat me.

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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    For me, it depends on how hard of an anaerobic effort I put out. A 1' test for me, and I'm down to 85% max for the rest of that day (regardless of recovery) if I do another 1' test. The next day, about 95% 1' test.
    When Hoy was going for the Kilo record he did two attempts two days in a row and actually went faster the second day, He also said there was no way he could do two attempts on the same day.

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    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    On paper most guys in this forum should beat me.
    Then I say we always race on paper. I'd still lose but at least it won't hurt as much.

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    That e-wang chart is useless anyways. The top and bottom suggested ranges are accurate but everything between is averages of each...

    Dont worry about it
    Please remember that all statements unless quoted, are strictly my opinion of what happened. That there are as many opinions as there are spectators attending. I just choose to publish mine on this forum. And would NEVER intend to purposely hurt or discredit any other cyclist.... With that said... HTFU!

  23. #23
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Everyone, thanks for the suggestion. I think i'm gonna lump my 5' and 20' together. The 20' is really gonna hurt afterwards, i think.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    On paper most guys in this forum should beat me.
    except for me

    Quote Originally Posted by wfrogge View Post
    That e-wang chart is useless anyways. The top and bottom suggested ranges are accurate but everything between is averages of each...

    Dont worry about it
    oh i know only the top & bottom of the chart is anchored. More about making sure that the zones are set up correctly for my training. Though it would be nice to hit 4w/kg. I got there last year while doing a computer stress test, but my results from November suggest i've got quite a bit to go.

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    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    To demonstrate how useless it is..if my power numbers don't change and all I do is lose the 6lbs I need to lose my e-wang will be upper cat 3 to low cat one depending on the time range. I don't believe any of this.

  25. #25
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    I test over two days. First day is 12 sec and 1 min. Second day is 5 min and 20. The first day I'm fresh and can hit peak numbers. The second day I feel great because of the previous day's 'openers'. YMMV.

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