carpediemracing 

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?

I'm thinking of (virtually committed to) doing a 5 week clinic for Cat 5s at the Bethel Spring Series. I'm wrestling with price, what racers want, and which topics need to be covered first.

A good foundation of "what to expect in racing" will set the tone for a generation of racers. I want to form a sound foundation for those that start at the Bethel Spring Series.

cdr

rkwaki

I'm in
I think it is a great idea for you to put something like that together. Much like people should have to do an introduction course to a gym when they sign up.

carpediemracing 

I'm considering a bunch of things. First will be course specific so that there aren't huge pile ups on the first week. Then will be more general race things.

Bethel specific - "lane" philosophy on hill/corners (that's general but especially applicable to Bethel), caution on wind and reading wind direction (it's usually windy there). Also cautions on what happens when standing (for the hill in Bethel's case). This would have to be covered on the first week so riders don't take each other out.

Race general stuff - drafting closer but to the side; looking up; making sure your six is clear (i.e. behind) before moving over; patience; paceline basics; gearing basics; maintenance/bike-check basics; relative power figures; exploring physiological limits; concept of speed.

All concepts will be covered on the website first. Kind of a "required reading" thing before the clinic day. The reading will be available to all; the clinic only to those that pay.

I'm not sure how I'm going to be with the group, probably moped/scooter, maybe bike, maybe car.

Clinic will be separate permit, means Cat 5 race will be separate.

cdr

milliron

It was all about safe pack riding in a crit. Protect your front end, keep your head up, stay in the drops to prevent getting hooked, don't overlap wheels, look beyond the tire in front of you, carry speed through the turns, hold your line and stay predictable, feather your brakes, run a higher cadence so it's easier to modulate speed. Stuff like that. Plus a few practice laps with a rotating pace line with mentor people floating around, pointing out issues.

I believe this weekend is going to be cornering technique and strategy. Unfortunately I'm going to miss it as my snowboard and I will be suffering in Tahoe.

Hapsmo911

On the pre ride talk they had a large board with things posted in bullet points such as, protecting your levers, staying in the drops, wheel overlap, keeping your shoulders and arms relaxed because of the crappy road, passing etc. They went over each point with examples from some of the mentors who came to the front and showed people each point, including pace line basics by walking their bikes in a proper rotation. What the wheel overlap looks like and so on.
We split into groups of maybe 20 riders. My group had four mentors. As I was looking at the schedule they had a class for mentors the week or so prior to the clinic for the mentors.
I don’t think it would have been possible without so many volunteers. There were maybe 100 cat 5's in the over 30, and half as many U30 it was a large crowd.
During the clinic the mentors took each group aside and went into more detail pace lines, lever cover, wheel over lap etc before we started. They put one mentor in the front and one in the rear with the two remaining floating. This seemed slow and at times boring, but after seeing some of the people not able to get the concept right away, to me became very valuable to my safety. One thing I would have done different is, the mentor in the front of our group was doing the explaining and imo should have just paced the line as we were having a hard time with the second line falling back fast enough, even when not pedaling. The line kept getting a slinky effect and we were unable to maintain a good line until the last lap when they let us go without the front mentor.
At the start line the official went over what they wanted and expected like number pinning, not sprinting for 10th place. They showed us where the sprint normally starts, for most people anyway.
Like I said, for someone who has never ever raced, like myself, it was cool. After a few laps at race speed it was a blessing as there were no crashes during the race with 100+ riders on the course. Something must have gone right. Next week they will go over corners in more detail, so each week will be something new in detail.
If you are planning on doing one of these, hats off to you. Its a good thing and it helps take the intimidation factor out of it. Its nice to be able to ask stupid questions from people who don’t mind answering them. It also was nice to meet a bunch of people I will prob race with for a long time.

InReverse

I wonder how valuable this is, and if it can be enhanced in a clinic.

mebaxter

That Early Bird clinics are an institution here in the Bay Area. They have been holding them in the same location for the last 20+ years. The series is 5 weeks long. The clinics are aimed at new men's 5's, women's 4's and juniors. Each week builds upon what was learned the previous week. This week was pacelines, holding your line and basic pack skills. Next week is cornering. I think the last 3 weeks are: breakaways, sprinting, and putting it all together. Clinics run around 45 minutes and they split groups up into managable sizes of a dozen or so. Each sub group has 3 or 4 mentors working with them. It really is a great way to get into the sport. I did them in 2009 and really appreciated the instruction I recieved.

UmneyDurak

Details! Yes you do need to be careful and judge the lean angle, ground clearance, and re-evaluate on every corner. Even if you have taken it a dozen times already. Ask me how I know.

tbrown524

Derail: Anyone recommend a fast group ride/ training crit in the San Francisco Area? I"ll be driving up there in two days and would like to get in a few group rides while there..

Thanks

milliron

If you want to go down the peninsula a little, the Alto Velo weekend rides are good.

There is also The Noon Ride down here, during the week.

https://www.altovelo.org/ride_calendar/index.php

milliron

+1 and edited.

grolby

Congrats on your first race!

RE: pedaling through. It's not the most important cornering skill, true; I was opposed to it for awhile, because the most important aspect to cornering fast is coming into the turn with the maximum possible speed. But then I found that I really did get gapped a bit in crits if I didn't manage at least a couple of pedal strokes in the turn. The thing is that everyone is entering the corner at a similar speed, which is less than the maximum speed you can go through solo, and everyone is pedaling as far into the turn as they can manage. In some corners, that might only be a couple of rotations, but if you're not pedaling, it's enough to put a gap into you.

During solo riding or high-speed descending, yes, pedaling through the corner is pretty unimportant. Taking a good line and not losing too much speed is much more critical than accelerating out, since you can't regain speed nearly as efficiently as losing it. And that's why, in a crit, you really need to pedal through the turn, because closing that gap is a lot harder than just keeping the pedals turning into the corner.

InReverse

I don't know if this is relevant, but I found this video on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIlxQjfOIcg

She's coaching and there's lots of "Early Bird" on people.

ridethecliche

If you pick the right lines, you can recover/save energy in the corners as people struggle to catch up while you just keep speed and get past them.

Hapsmo911

This advice is making a lot of sense.

grolby,
I think this may be more of my problem. I was looking at some pics taken at the race and my lines through the corners, it looks like I am cutting the corners too soon. The turns are flat. I think taking a large wide arch through the turn would make more sense. As you you guys have pointed out, you can carry your speed through the turn. Thanks. And thanks for all the replies from everyone. See what happens this weekend.

Debusama

I wish all CAT 4/5 crits gave clinics like that. Crits, particularly the ones in residential neighborhoods seem to draw a lot of first-time “I’ll give this racing thing a shot” types. I think a 1-mile loop through a neighborhood is less intimidating for non-racers than a long road race. Realistically, a technical crit is about the worst place to get one’s racing feet wet.

grolby

Yes - cutting into corners seems intuitively faster, but is actually much slower. You go into the corner real hot, but then you need to scrub speed like crazy to avoid coming out too wide and coming off the course or hitting another rider. You don't want to turn in too early - a later turn in gives you a wider line, is smoother, safer and faster (but don't overdo it; turning in too late is also slow). But again, your choice of lines in a race is fairly limited. Try and identify a good wheel - someone who is smooth and doesn't seem to lose position on most corners - and follow that guy for a while. That's a good way to learn. Practice, practice, practice.

rkwaki

]As crits seem to be my specialty let me tell you my cornering strategy and a few other things.
First off I ride almost entirely on the hoods - very rarely do I go on the drops unless I am sprinting - it suits me better for braking etc. I have attached a pic of my new BMC build so you can see where my brake/shift levers are placed (though I should e changing bikes again in a month or so).
When getting ready for a crit I tend to walk the course first to paint a picture in my head as to what to expect for corners (I generally know the ones I will pedal through but still want to take a look). When riding the course for the frst time I usually ride it slow and visualize where I want to go.
Pedaling through corners is an aquired skill that takes time but you have to evaluate the merits of pedaling through. If it is the last corner before the finish line you better figure out how you are going to pedal through it - it will help with your jump to the line. If there is truly nothing to gain from pedaling through then don't. I was in a crit last year, bridged the gap to the break, dropped one of the two guys and then on the last lap with about 1/2 a mile to go the guy that was left in the break with me pedaled through the corner, clicked his pedal and wrecked in front to of me, taking me down with him. Left me with a broken wrist and seperated shoulder. As we were more than 30 seconds in front of the group there was nothing to gain for him to pedal through and subsequently we both crashed out.
If I cannot pedal through the entire corner I always pedal two full pedal strokes at the start of the corner then coast through the rest. I cannot tell you why I do this it is just something I do.
Pick your line and stick with it, the worst thing you can do is change your line, go on the brakes or make sudden movements in the corner. This also comes with experience as does getting used to feeling someone's knuckles bump off yours at 20+ mph.
The biggest thing that is going to allow you to race well is to relax and stay calm (If you have ever seen me race you would know how funny this sounds coming from me). If you tense up and are stiff on the bike it makes cornering much more difficult, stay calm and limber and you will be good. Many times I have had guys leaning on me or had their handlebars inside mine, if you want to make it out of the corner safely everyone has to relax. If he/she rode their to begin with it is possible to stay there until you can ride out of the situation.
Also remember a smooth line is faster than a jittery line just like a smooth race car driver is faster than one that just points and shoots then brakes hard only to point and shoot again.

grolby

Nothing personal, but my immediate reaction to this is, "DISREGARD ALL ADVICE FROM THIS RIDER." If you feel better on the hoods, there is something wrong with your fit, your handlebar setup, or your confidence. You're faster in the drops, you're more stable in the drops, you can better protect your bars from getting hooked in the drops, braking is better in the drops.

I don't know, maybe you've been racing for 20 years and this works for you, and if so I'd love to hear more about it. But advising someone that you spend most of your time on the hoods (and from the picture of your setup, I'm unsurprised) and that this is actually better, well, that raises a red flag for me.

graphs

I'm just curious how he rides with a foot of steerer tube sticking out the top.

rkwaki

Like I said new bike being built - being cut today. Cracked another frame just before Christmas.

rkwaki

Believe what you want but as we both live in the same area why don't you and I go for a ride together

rkwaki

Now let's take a look at two of the best sprinters in the world and how their setup is:
Mark Cavendish:


Tyler Farrar:


Me (rkwaki):


I'll take a better pic of mine but they are all similar (might be a bad pic that I posted)

rkwaki

One further thing then I will stop defending myself I never recommended riding entirely on the hoods - I said "I ride almost entirely on the hoods", there is a difference between stating what I do versus a recommendation.
As I said, you want to train sometime, hit me up, you can correct my 'fit'

Grumpy McTrumpy

which size did you end up choosing?