echappist

Next week, i'll be doing a 0.91 mile long circuit with 80 feet of climbing crammed into 0.40 miles and the descent spread out into the next 0.51 miles. The course has a rather sharp (rounded, but still overall at an acute angle) at the bottom of the hill, and it looks like a tear drop overall. At my level, i'm doing 30 minutes of this, and i expect to go around this damned thing about 12 times.

My power profile is that of a pursuitist, with my 5' power being the highest (at least 335W at 69kg). My 1' (8.11w/kg) and FTP (3.77w/kg) are okay. I think the race eventually boils down to ~80 seconds of high output, followed by ~60 seconds of descent. Rinse, lather, repeat. Given this, how much would you dig in on the climbing portion? Also, since this is almost like doing a VO2 max interval 12 times, would you do one (i.e. 12x80"x60")a few days before the race for simulation?

Thanks in advance.

kensuf

As much as I need to stay with the group, if not off the front.

Hermes

I suspect the field will go very hard on the climbing section the first couple of times and the power will be very high and significantly beyond VO2 Max. I have not had a pacing strategy in a circuit race, crit or road race. The field sets my pace. As far as preparation goes, I would do some 90 second anaerobic threshold intervals with a rest interval equal to or less than the time it takes to complete the circuit. Better yet, go to the course and practice on the climb. I would do these soon or early next week.

I would do everything in my power to stay with the lead group. Check the direction of the wind. If it is in the face of the peloton on the climb it will neutralize the climbers. Good luck.

notwist

is this the rutgers race? as an alumnus, i always try to ride to the race and watch each year

echappist

Yep. New course though. Thompson Park in Jamesburg.
Thanks for the suggestions. The damn intervals will probably make me cry
Yeah, i thought this may be my only option.

notwist

good luck! it seems i'll be doing branch brook that day

neuronal

That points race business looks like it'll make things fun. Can't just hide in the pack and sprint for the end in this race.

botto 

is this a parody thread, or do i need more coffee?

Grumpy McTrumpy

Our local circuit race is 1.6mi, with a 100' hill on every lap. You will go anaerobic every time. Best time to attack is right at the top of the hill when folks are gassed.

echappist

Are you coming down to Rutgers next weekend? Also, i don't think there are prime points as this is a circuit, though it's short enough to be a crit course. Look at it this way, 80 feet in 0.4 miles is about 4%. That's a pretty damn hilly circuit.


Botto, you've been doing this before i was born and think this is quite nonsensical. To boot, i get the feeling that you can climb/punch all day given your knack for getting into and driving breaks. But for me, i need to have a way to stay in contention but not go all out and get popped.

Grumpy, thanks for the suggestion. The Army circuit race last year was quite similar, and i "attacked" (didn't meant to, but ended up dropping everyone) at the top of the finishing kick and opened up quite a gap on the descent. I held that gap for the remaining 4 miles. But that was spread out over two miles and i had quite a bit of time to recover. For this, i'm looking at an attack with 1 or 2 laps left.

Also, good to see you back here posting again.

Grumpy McTrumpy

with one or two laps to go, everyone else will be expecting it.

botto 

unless you're one of these prodigies who graduated from college when they should have been graduating from high school, i haven't been doing it as long as you think.

as for my ability, or lack there of, i must make it clear that i'm more tenacious than talented.

kensuf

I'm not tenacious. I'm just thick headed.

neuronal

I should be there, barring too much homework. Damn homework getting in the way of training and racing.

carpediemracing 

Not having seen the course, nor knowing the competition, but making an assumption that it'll be 3s, 4s, and/or 5s... And as a low FTP tail gunner that hates hills but manages to place on courses with a hill finish...

That downhill with the tight turn, if you're not at the front, you can drift back a lot, ease, and coast back into the group at your own speed. You'll probably have to brake, but you may be able to time it + adjust speed so that you coast into the group as you finish the turn out.

If in the middle of the pack don't be too disruptive, but if you feel that you can move up okay on the hill then I'd save as much energy as possible. At the New London Crit (2010, downhill > sharp left > uphill to line) I was at the back for much of the race, struggling mightily. Next to me, not struggling that much (he stayed in the small ring for most of the race) was one Bill Yabroudy, a former Cat 1/2 Killington or Fitchburg (or both) winner. He got 7th after attacking at the bell, I got 6th after a stutter in the final turn (the guy in front of me fell over). So that's my resume in recent downhill-sharp-turn-uphill-finish races

You should be able to use a lap to move up, using your (solo) speed through the turn to hit the field kind of quickly on the hill. Maintain momentum and roll by the others. It may not be a sprint effort since you're not accelerating but it'll be a hard roll. Pursuit-like if you will.

On the last laps you'll need to maintain a forward position - I'm talking pretty far in front, like 5th or so. Move up on the downhill when everyone starts to coast - your brakes work so use them to slow down, stay on the gas until you need to slow. This is where you'll use up your tail gunning reserves. You'll move up in the 50-70 meters before the turn, so it'll be really late on the downhill. Until then everyone else is still pedaling.

Don't be afraid to go into the tight turn first, then accelerate less-than-100% to let some riders past you on the hill. This allows you to stay within some reasonable HR while getting up the hill in good position. The accordion effect will help you, allowing you to take a good 300-500w off of the acceleration power necessary to maintain position.

More course info and any feedback on realities of you/the-race and I'll try and think of more tips.

cdr

echappist

cdr, that was immensely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write it up and sharing your insights.

here's the course

https://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/28765188

edit: unlocked private setting of map

thegunner

your map is private bro. see you there.

neuronal

How do you know where the start is?

echappist

https://collegiatecycling.org/eccc/wi...lendar.Current

they just updated it, along with Stevens. Stevens is now a 34 mile RR for collegiate C's. 3 laps of 11 mile long course

mattm

I would attack at the bottom of the hill, make them work harder to catch you.. at least that's what it takes to get a prime or place on our local circuit with a similar course. (Seward for the locals - however our finish is at the top of the hill)

I'm guessing that a few crazies will attack halfway through the race, and fail. Then someone will attack with 2-3 laps to go, and get caught. The (pack) sprint sounds like it will be up the hill; if you crest that hill first, it's all downhill from there right? (assuming finish is at the bottom)

If 5' power is your best, it doesn't mean you need to attack in the last 5 minutes of the race; to me, it means those last 5 minutes will be that much easier for you compared to others.

mike868y

why do you hate break aways?

mattm

A sampling of my breaks from last season:

- one was 45 minutes off the front, solo, though it was 7 miles into a 62 mile race. I had 1:45 on the pack for a while, they were a tiny spot behind me, sometimes out of sight.. I got caught on the 3km climb (1st time up it), and hung on for dear life.

- the 1st crit of a 6 race series last year, I went off the front on the last lap, got a jump on the field though I only ended up 4th.
- 3rd race of that series, I was the 1st to go at the bottom of the (short) hlll before the finish, ended up 3rd
- 4th race of the series, won a preme & the race - no real attacks but I wasn't exactly playing it safe either
- 5th race of that series, I went off the front (or tried to) 3 or 4 times, won a preme too. 7th.
- 6th race of that series, me & another guy went off the front for a few laps from the bell. By the 5th race of the series I had enough points to be a 3 anyway, so it didn't matter.

Now that I'm in the 3's, breakaways are an even more important part of racing. But there are way fewer guys doing suicide attacks 1/3rd of the way through the race..

- In one circuit race in the 3's, I bridged up to a break of 3 with a good mix of teams, we stayed off the front for 7 or 8 miles, one more bridged up, but we got caught.
- another circuit race, I attacked with 1 mile to go, had a nice gap but was chased down in the last 200m.. ended up 35th. Fun attack though.
- last race of the season, the one that has a similar profile to jimbo's race, I tried to bridge up to the break, failed, and won the field sprint instead. 4th.

This isn't even mentioning the primes I won at Seward (weekly practice race) last year - which are almost always won from attacks on that course, never a true sprint.

My favorite of those was when I attacked at the bottom of the hill on a bell lap ($10!), surprised that nobody challenged me. Only to realize halfway up the hill there was already somone out front - I caught him 5m from the line, everyone watching loved it.

So don't get me wrong, I like to attack like a mofo - but (mostly) when it makes sense..

Zillon

Looks like we'll be suffering together this weekend. Hopefully the rain stays away... I'm not hoping for a repeat of a very wet Philly Phlyer 2 years ago.

The points race format will be interesting though, and definitely introduce a lot more strategy to what would otherwise just be another crit.

echappist

wait, so it's no straight up circuit race? I hope they give out KOM points reasonably. Then again, i could care less about KOM and am more concerned with how i do in the end.

I assume you are doing Cat A or B this weekend?

thegunner

not KOM... it's sprint lap every 5th lap, points go 5 deep. there are no mountains in central jersey.