Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

"Moving Up" etiquette during Road Race with Center line rule in effect?

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

"Moving Up" etiquette during Road Race with Center line rule in effect?

Old 03-26-11, 08:34 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Moving Up" etiquette during Road Race with Center line rule in effect?

As a CAT 5 who has a handful of road races under his belt, I struggle getting to the front of the pack when there is no room to move up because there just isn't enough space (in the US: yellow line on the left, shoulder of road on the right). Especially if you are the very back where the riders back there seem content to tailgun, so there is usually very little "movement".

In last week's race, I spent the first half at (or very near) the very back and then one of the racers who had been at (or near) the front dropped back (not sure why), but then he started moving up along the right side, so I jumped on his wheel and went to the front (didn't have any problems staying up there for the 2nd half of the race, but getting there was the difficult part).

Went he went up along the right, he essentially forced his way up saying "on your right" when there was little to no room on the right, but everyone gave him (us) a few inches to squeeze by. Is this proper etiquette and expected? I didn't see anyone else move up that aggressively during the entire race.
StefanG is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 09:08 AM
  #2  
Batüwü Creakcreak
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The illadelph
Posts: 20,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times in 160 Posts
Line up to be near the front.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 10:05 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Irvent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sounds like common courtesy, which even works well in races. I mean, if I knew someone was trying to pass me on the side and was strong enough to just be moving up and calling it out, I'd give it to them just as I would hope they'd do the same for me. The roads can get tight and no one wants to crash out just because they didn't want to let a stronger rider pass. Plus, this isn't Mario Kart, we don't need to be shoving people off the track or dropping banana peels behind us to botch the competition.

There's a difference between blocking an attack and physically just being in the way.
Irvent is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 10:45 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
ericm979's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains
Posts: 6,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Asking can get you a lot of cooperation. But don't get mad if someone won't let you by. Following someone who is better at moving up, like you did, is a good way to move up yourself, and to learn how to do it better.

I often find that it's easier to go up the right side of the road than to hug the centerline. More people hang out on the centerline.

Watch the race. There are times when things get more strung out and you can use those to move up.
ericm979 is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 11:17 AM
  #5  
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Make room.
WonderLake is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 01:03 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the advice/suggestions. Going to try to be more aggressive (without being rude/dangerous) about moving up after I find myself drifting back.
StefanG is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 02:18 PM
  #7  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Agree that moving up as you did on the right is fine if people are making enough room. It's common.

It's good to learn to move up within the pack too. There are ways of filling the gaps as if you're a liquid drawn to the front.

Lastly, I'll often move up just with some power when things string out. It doesn't take much out of me to hop out when things start getting strung out, and just hammer up to the front. The last time I did this, things just didn't feel right mid-pack, and right when I arrived at the front, the winning break took off. Luckily, I had the position and the legs to join in and benefit. I know a lot of people will really fight the urge to just move up the side in the wind (when there's room -- which is only when it's fast), but it is more expedient.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 03:27 PM
  #8  
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
4/5 road races usually are packed and hard to move up in. People just don't have the pack skills and end up boxing you in all the time. Last weekend I can't tell you the amount of times I should have been able to move up and was blocked at the last second because of a guy not holding his line. Trying to find the holes and gaps takes time, but it's the only way. I prefer to move up in the middle of the pack instead of the outside, unless I want to move up asap, just because the wind sucks on the outer sides. It's much nicer in the lower categories because it's a lot more fluid, and you can move up when you want as long as you make your own gaps.
Creatre is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 04:59 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets
Agree that moving up as you did on the right is fine if people are making enough room. It's common.

It's good to learn to move up within the pack too. There are ways of filling the gaps as if you're a liquid drawn to the front.

Lastly, I'll often move up just with some power when things string out. It doesn't take much out of me to hop out when things start getting strung out, and just hammer up to the front. The last time I did this, things just didn't feel right mid-pack, and right when I arrived at the front, the winning break took off. Luckily, I had the position and the legs to join in and benefit. I know a lot of people will really fight the urge to just move up the side in the wind (when there's room -- which is only when it's fast), but it is more expedient.
I was able to do this a couple times today, but when I got up near the front, I wasn't sure what to do. Is it expected that you go to the front and pull, or will someone typically give you a gap? I just hung out in the wind until I could find an opening, but I wasn't sure how hard to push this. I also went to the front once to pull and then someone eventually pulled in front of me.
grwoolf is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 06:00 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ruidoso, NM
Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Don't do any significant work on the front unless you are attacking... and be ready to follow someone who does.
rruff is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 06:18 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
obiwan kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Should have heard the cussing out I got when I called out middle middle and filled a gap, thought the guy was going to wet himself
obiwan kenobi is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 06:46 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
mike868y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,284
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I take my mini pump with me and throw it at people in order to move up in the pack. Seems to work well for me.
mike868y is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 07:44 PM
  #13  
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mike868y
I take my mini pump with me and throw it at people in order to move up in the pack. Seems to work well for me.
Fred!
Creatre is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 09:03 PM
  #14  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by grwoolf
I was able to do this a couple times today, but when I got up near the front, I wasn't sure what to do. Is it expected that you go to the front and pull, or will someone typically give you a gap? I just hung out in the wind until I could find an opening, but I wasn't sure how hard to push this. I also went to the front once to pull and then someone eventually pulled in front of me.
Any time I find myself up there, without anywhere to get in, I just attack. Really though, there's pretty much always a way in. If you came up on the upwind side, go around the front, drift back a bit, then overlap your front wheel with someone else's rear wheel, snuggle up close, and your bars and bike will push the next guy back into the wind, and the wheel is yours. If you came up on the downwind side, you can just go directly into this maneuver.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 03-26-11, 11:05 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Nick Bain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Driftless
Posts: 1,832

Bikes: Caad8, Mukluk 3, Trek Superfly, Gary Fisher Irwin.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
hence the term high speed chess match. Most everbody wants to be at the front depending on the course. I usually weight my turn/look for an opportunity that doesn't involve wasting too much energy. I don't see many people forcing there way to the front.
Nick Bain is offline  
Old 03-27-11, 07:48 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Etiquette aside, you should try to move up through the pack as efficiently as possible. If you're always looking up the road instead of at the few riders in front of you, as you should, you will be able to anticipate the ebbs and flows of the pack and use that to your advantage to move up. I think learning to relax and let the race come to you is the hardest thing for inexperienced racers to learn. They're always pushing, reacting, pushing, and that wears you out.

Learning to surf wheels through the field is an acquired skill that has to be learned through experience. Group rides are good slow motion low risk opportunities to do that. Once you get good at surfing wheels you will be able to put yourself where you want to be with minimal effort, instead of blasting up the sides.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 03-27-11, 07:50 AM
  #17  
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
shovel knows what he is talking about
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 03-27-11, 07:57 AM
  #18  
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217

Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 41 Posts
If you are doing a crit or a circuit race make mental notes where natural places are that will allow movement. For a RR this is more difficult but you also have climbs or times when things get strung out a bit.

It's best to follow a wheel to the front but not always a possibility. Learn to move people as WR suggested. Also a gentle hand on the hip of a rider next to you can safely get you a few inches.

Surfing to the front through the middle is a skill and one I practice still, especially in the early season, to sharpen the spidey senses.
__________________
BDop Cycling Company Ltd.: bdopcycling.com, facebook, instagram



Bob Dopolina is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 06:20 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,088

Bikes: ?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When it's strung out and the pace slows down, use the opportunity to pull out of line and let your momentum move you up instead of staying behind the rider in front of you and braking.

In a multi-lap road race, look for places where the shoulder widens and remember it. Next lap, be ready to pull to the right and move up before the field spreads out since a lot of others won't take advantage of it.
saratoga is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 07:38 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Debusama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 684

Bikes: Elephant custom road bike, 08 Redline D440, Motobecane Fantom cross Uno.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
Also a gentle hand on the hip of a rider next to you can safely get you a few inches.
There's nothing I hate more than an unsolicited hand on my body. I try to be courteous, and I'll generally make room for someone who verbally requests it, but the best way to make sure my ass doesn't budge one millimeter for you, is put your hand on it. Particularly in a cat5 pack full of people with less than 10 races under their belt, unexpected contact can be quite jarring to one's concentration... There's nothing safe about nudging a guy in the hip to get him out of your way.
Debusama is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 07:44 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^get used to it. as you advance through categories, the more this occurs, not to shove out of the way but to let one know that someone is there.
MDcatV is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 07:49 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Debusama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 684

Bikes: Elephant custom road bike, 08 Redline D440, Motobecane Fantom cross Uno.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh I’m plenty used to it, but that doesn’t mean I like it, or that it’ll be and effective way to get me out of your way.
Debusama is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 08:02 AM
  #23  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by WonderLake
Make room.
Yes. This.

Originally Posted by Creatre
4/5 road races usually are packed and hard to move up in. People just don't have the pack skills and end up boxing you in all the time. Last weekend I can't tell you the amount of times I should have been able to move up and was blocked at the last second because of a guy not holding his line. Trying to find the holes and gaps takes time, but it's the only way. I prefer to move up in the middle of the pack instead of the outside, unless I want to move up asap, just because the wind sucks on the outer sides. It's much nicer in the lower categories because it's a lot more fluid, and you can move up when you want as long as you make your own gaps.
These are excuses. If I had $1 for every time a rider blames "others" for them being "boxed in" - that is a situation you create yourself. Learn to read what is going on. Move from wheels moving up to other wheels that are moving up. Predict the shift in momentum. Those moving up at some point will stop - and then they are in effect moving back. Getting "boxed in"is a result of getting mentally lazy and not reading what is going on. The race is fluid - you can't just get in a good spot and grind away for 1/2 hour.

Originally Posted by Debusama
There's nothing I hate more than an unsolicited hand on my body. I try to be courteous, and I'll generally make room for someone who verbally requests it, but the best way to make sure my ass doesn't budge one millimeter for you, is put your hand on it. Particularly in a cat5 pack full of people with less than 10 races under their belt, unexpected contact can be quite jarring to one's concentration... There's nothing safe about nudging a guy in the hip to get him out of your way.
Get used to it. The safest thing in the world is to lightly touch someone on the hip when it looks like they are going to come in on you. If you can't handle touching in the pack then you should probably walk away from racing. Touching leads to less over-reacting than yelling at someone does.

Also - if forced to move up in the middle it is the best way to keep your space - a nice hand check. It's better than banging bars....which I have been known to resort to. Leaned on a guy for a good 1/3 of a mile this weekend. He thought he could force his way in and I showed him he couldn't.

Racing - especially crit racing - is a contact sport. If you don't like that then don't race.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 08:07 AM
  #24  
impressive member
 
badhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: fort collins
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: c'dale supersix, jamis trilogy, spec. tricross

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
yeah that DONT TOUCH ME bit was a really weird comment
badhat is offline  
Old 03-28-11, 08:15 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've only raced six races this season, so take this FWIW. I've been touched twice, in a 3/4 race (politely) and a mixed field Cat4/M50+ race (shoved hard by a Cat4). In the Masters and 1/2/3 races, no contact at all. I got myself into a double squeeze in the 1/2/3 race where two guys were fighting for the wheel in front of me, and there were just a few inches between me and the riders to either side. I could smell what they had for breakfast that morning. No contact.

I would much rather use my voice than take my hands off the bars unless it is absolutely necessary. If you pull the "pardon me, 'scuse me" deal, I might give you the wheel, depending on the state of the race at that time. Realize though that you may be doing all the work while towing me to the front.
shovelhd is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.