MDcatV

^practice it on the goon ride, it should be autopilot, you shouldnt have to remember.

chris675D

Just practice it on rides. At first try holding it for 10-20 minutes then increase it after a couple days. I didn't like riding in the drops as much before during normal speeds but once I forced myself to do it, eventually it became second nature.

Homebrew01

At 1:00 when the pace was slow and that other guy moved up, you could have gone too.

collin2985

He did that while everyone was braking in preparation for the tight turn up ahead. If everyone did what he did, there would have been a crash in that corner.

YMCA

umm, probably not.

You are very timid in this video.
If you're in this sport for the long haul, working on your bike handling and technique would be my first word of advice.
Laying far off the wheels and braking into tums for too long wasted massive energy.

Fitness is rarely the limiting factor in lower cats, as witnessed by so many of these videos.

Play hard Colin and get a little uncomfortable.

wens

I haven't watched the video, but from context it sounds like he made it through just fine. If he made it, then it would've been fine if everyone had done it. Where you end up with the biggest problems is when everyone isn't trying to do the same thing.

rkwaki

What the **** is this "braking into turns" thing you talk about?

YMCA

Ii's the equivalent of being:
Shy. Unsure. Nerve-wracked. Unaggressive. Pack fodder.

rkwaki

That describes me perfectly.
7,000 miles on a set of pads disagrees with that theory though...

YMCA

Ha.
Get back to work

UmneyDurak

ICC Dash For Cash, CAT4 field. After first lap and until 5 to go first person that crosses a finish line gets 10 bucks. My computer was registering 41C. Hot!

Any feedback is welcome, specially for the finish. It didn't end well.

YMCA

^^^
It's a long ways from last corner to sprint line.
And yes, you're big mistake was getting boxed by the guy who'd been leading out for last half lap.
Next time either commit from last corner and take your chance sprinting for 400 meters, OR sit back five spots and wait... like the bunch kick winner prob did, even though it was only for 2nd.

Otherwise, good job grabbing some premes.
Good to see the aggression

carpediemracing 

You were upright when you finished so it wasn't bad. You were pretty close to the curb coming out of the last corner and it didn't seem like you panicked so that was good.

You spent a lot of energy off the front. You're obviously very strong to be able to stay off the front like that. You can go into a race with a plan to put that strength to use. Figure out if you had a decent gap at some point (20-30 seconds) then you should time your attack so that you have your big gap at one or two laps to go. Say you had your max gap at 3 laps into the break. Make your move at 5 to go in the race and then bury yourself in the last couple laps to make it work.

You weren't close enough to the guy pulling on the last lap. Since it's just one person in front of you you should be able to get really close. It would be more difficult if you were, say, 10th in line. Then the line will move around quite a bit and you won't be able to stay as close. It seems that 3-4 riders is the max where you can be really close and still not have problems if the rider in front does something a bit odd. I've seen a line of riders moving up the side of the field and then someone in the field moves out. The first rider will move sideways, the second (usually very close but to the outside) will move out too, ditto the third. By the 4th or 5th rider it's a big swerve. When I'm following a line of riders and everyone is to the same side (like moving up the right side of the field and everyone is overlapped to the right) I'll overlap to the other side. This way if they all start swerving out I'll be okay. If they swerve in then only one guy really has to move since everyone else is overlapped the other way. This gives me some warning so I'm prepared and I can make my own move.

If you have to you can stay to one side, usually to the inside if you're coming up on a corner. Most people can get much closer if they move to the side even 6 inches, and 12 inches to the side and usually riders have to be careful not to overlap. It beats being 4-5-6 feet behind the wheel.

As a general rule if your behind someone who is near the end of their tether then you should expect them to move to the outside to get out of the way. Move slightly inside in case they do this but stay in shelter until they either pull off or slow down enough to make it worthwhile to move past. If you're coming into a right turn and there's a guy that's been pulling for freakin' ever (in the last lap any pull over 250 meters is too long) then get ready for them to blow up and move out.

Personally I would have been a bit more quick with a yell when that guy moved to the left. I can't tell if you were looking forward or to the side or down so if you were looking elsewhere then I understand a slight delay.

carpediemracing 

One thing that struck me is that at 0:25 you're directly behind the guy in front of you but there are riders moving by. If you're on a wheel near the front and the riders in front aren't going fast then you can assume that others will move up where ever there are openings, typically up one side.

Based on that assumption you should claim a passing lane. Move over a foot or so, enough so that you can pass the guy in front of you with just a slight move (6-12" to the side). You should be paying attention to what's going on behind you as well, looking down to see what's behind and beside you. I can't tell if you were doing that but if you were focusing on the rider in front you end up missing the tactical moves going on behind you.

In extreme cases it's sometimes better to ride looking back at your competitors than forward along the course. This is especially true on the track but definitely applies in a crit where you have some idea of what's coming up on the course. I've seen riders go 100 meters at a time without ever looking forward - they're waiting for the (counter) move and they understand that it'll be decisive.

At 1:24 did you feel overgeared? You seem to be pedaling slowly. I tend to push but that late in the race you're going to fatigue your muscles and you can't accelerate well. At that point an easier gear and some more aggressive moves might have been appropriate. A guy to your forward left gets out of the saddle and accelerates away in what appears to be a lower gear.

If guys are coasting (somewhere where you were going 24 mph or so) it may be worth it to move up. Remember that position isn't free - you need to pay for position. Use your reserves to buy position, especially if you're not passing a lot of people in the sprint or passing guys easily in the sprint. Starting the sprint in 3rd and getting 4th (one guy passed you in the sprint) is better than starting 7th and getting 8th.

If you have your cadence info check your sprint too. It seems like you're pushing a big gear. That gives you poor acceleration. Learn to sprint on the drops and shift while you sprint.

carpediemracing 

One thing that struck me is that at 0:25 you're directly behind the guy in front of you but there are riders moving by. If you're on a wheel near the front and the riders in front aren't going fast then you can assume that others will move up where ever there are openings, typically up one side.

Based on that assumption you should claim a passing lane. Move over a foot or so, enough so that you can pass the guy in front of you with just a slight move (6-12" to the side). You should be paying attention to what's going on behind you as well, looking down to see what's behind and beside you. I can't tell if you were doing that but if you were focusing on the rider in front you end up missing the tactical moves going on behind you.

In extreme cases it's sometimes better to ride looking back at your competitors than forward along the course. This is especially true on the track but definitely applies in a crit where you have some idea of what's coming up on the course. I've seen riders go 100 meters at a time without ever looking forward - they're waiting for the (counter) move and they understand that it'll be decisive.

At 1:24 did you feel overgeared? You seem to be pedaling slowly. I tend to push but that late in the race you're going to fatigue your muscles and you can't accelerate well. At that point an easier gear and some more aggressive moves might have been appropriate. A guy to your forward left gets out of the saddle and accelerates away in what appears to be a lower gear.

If guys are coasting (somewhere where you were going 24 mph or so) it may be worth it to move up. Remember that position isn't free - you need to pay for position. Use your reserves to buy position, especially if you're not passing a lot of people in the sprint or passing guys easily in the sprint. Starting the sprint in 3rd and getting 4th (one guy passed you in the sprint) is better than starting 7th and getting 8th.

If you have your cadence info check your sprint too. It seems like you're pushing a big gear. That gives you poor acceleration. Learn to sprint on the drops and shift while you sprint.

UmneyDurak

Thanks for the tips. Will keep them in mind. I think the video makes it a bit further then I actually was from the wheel, due to wider angle lense, but yeah overall it's something I need to work on. I was looking forward, scanning in front of him and to the right. I am just not used at telling people to move out of the way, and was a tad indecisive on what to do. I was also realizing that I messed up big time. I thought I can go around him on outside when move to the right happened, but he carried higher speed through the corner and ended up cutting in front of me. At which point I was like:FML. lol. Just frustrating, I know I have the strength just tactics suck. I tend to loose bunch of places in last lap or two. People start passing me, not in this instance, and I can't seem to catch the wheel. Hopefully with me starting to record races I can analyze them after and figure out why. During a race it's all kind of a blur.

chris675D

Why'd he crash? Did the guy in front brake or slow down? Or did the camera guy go into the corner faster than the guy in front and they crossed paths? Also I was thinking about what you guys said a few pages earlier about wheel touching and pushing through the wheel, would that not work here since he was traveling a lot faster? My race is on this course so I've sorta been studying film

Edit: Could it be that either rider didn't hold their line? Seems like the guy in front turned in after the corner.

shovelhd

So much stupid in that video.

If you crash and are conscious, take your **** bike off the course, pronto.

You ride without your helmet at a race around here, on the course or off, and you'll get a minimum of a warning, and are subject to suspension.

It looked to me like the guy took a crappy line through the turn and his rear wheel got hit.

shovelhd

UmneyDurak, pretty good work. Just a few things. If you're OTF in a two-up break and you both want to stay away, it is imperative that both of you waste no energy and put it all into the break. That means no excess effort. At least once I saw your break mate sprint around you for the prime. It should be clear whose turn it is. You guys seemed to chat enough. If you are on the front coming to the line and it's his turn, flick him through and back off. Don't make him jump around you. The other thing is your bridge attempt. Good positioning, good speed, good deception. The only thing was that it seemed like you were in too tall a gear. You got the jump but it wasn't enough. I like to launch between 95-100rpm, spinning up to 120 rpm and shifting hard through three or four gears. The object is to be accelerating while any chaser is jumping. You want the guy behind you who is sprinting to watch you pulling away. It tricks them into thinking that they won't catch you, and they give up. Otherwise, you rode nice lines in the break on the course, took good, hard pulls, and did the smart thing at the end and didn't try and pass that guy against the cones.

carpediemracing 

There are two parts to the crash.

The first is that the rider in front takes a bad line. He turns in early, he's on the hoods, and he can't correct properly. This slows him down and has him end up more inside. If he'd turned in later he wouldn't have had to slow down because he'd have been parallel to the guy in front of him and he could have just passed him or drawn up next to him. If he was on the drops he'd be lower up front, have more control over the bike, have a bit more weight on the front end, enabling him to turn in harder without slowing, even if he'd taken a bad line (like turning in early). The early turn in is the main reason for the weird line here - it's absolutely the most common error made by anyone in a wheeled vehicle, whether driving or riding.

(This is why you should be super aware of how you drive because the things that become automatic in your car will also become automatic on the bike, like not turning in early.)

The second part is the rider with the camera. He does some things wrong also. He turns in even earlier than the guy in front of him. It's a natural reaction that when the person in front of you turns in early that you do too. If you persevere and do a normal or turn in (typically I follow the line of the rider to my outside) then you'll have the widest range of options at the turn out point, i.e. the exit of the turn. A late turn in means you're going to be pointing down the next straight earlier so you aren't forced to try and keep turning just to stay upright.

The rider in back had a couple chances to save himself. First, he could have simply turned in later. Held a straight line for another fraction of a second and then turned in.

Second, he could have simply gone to the other rider's outside in the middle of the turn. I know that breaks the rule of going to the inside but when someone is struggling to hold their line sometimes I find it better to follow the path of least resistance. In this case that means going to the outside of the rider in front, the rider that is making errors.

Third, he definitely could have made it through after contact if he'd pushed. This is a good example of when to really hold your bars and barge forward. At this point it's really survival, it's not about being fair or nice to others or whatever. The camera rider, once he contacts the rear wheel of the guy in front, well his priority has to be to stay upright, or, if he's going to crash, to try and control how he crashes. It seems that he barely contacted the rider - if it had been significant and severe contact he'd have been flipped to the side. Instead he does a slow topple. This is indicative of minor contact. In this case a push would have pushed the rear wheel in front of him sideways a bit. The rider in front should be able to recover (a rear wheel slide is basically a non-incident) and the camera rider would have stayed upright and the crisis ends.

With touching wheels there's the "pull the wheel back" and the "push on through" to solve contact. The camera rider could have stood up, pulled the bike back hard, and probably cleared the wheel to the left of the rider in front. At that point the crisis ends.

If he was too far overlapped to do that then a firm grip on the bars would have done wonders. The camera rider could have maintained his cornering line, maybe tightened it up a bit (seems like he wasn't maxed out, he was just caught out by the rider in front moving in), and, with a very firm grip on the bars, kept the bike moving along its natural trajectory, regardless of contact with the wheel in front of him.

It sounds like it's a lot to think about and, if you're trying to remember all this for the first time, it definitely is. This is why I always try to be aware of cornering dynamics, always always always always always always. Any time I'm cornering, whether I'm walking, pushing a shopping cart, playing with Matchbox cars, driving a real car, or riding my bike, I'm constantly thinking about cornering dynamics. Late turn in. What if there's a person with an overloaded cart coming my way around the corner. Okay do a really late turn in so the apex is 3 feet from the shelf so I have clearance for that overloaded cart.

If you focus on your driving, your riding, your walking, your Matchbox cars, your shopping cart lines, it becomes automatic. I mistakenly practiced "outside-inside-outside" when I was a kid, 12 or 13, with my Matchbox cars. When I realized that late apexes are where it's at (probably in my 20s) that became my focus.

A great way to think about late apexes is to play some car video games. They really punish you for early turn in - if you end up hitting the wall on the turn out then you're apexing too early or simply going too fast. A late apex will have you skimming the wall/curb/etc as you go blasting out of the turn.

Turning in late is against your natural instinct. Even I'll turn in early if I lose my nerve. The key is to try and make turning in later a viable option in your mind.

waterrockets 

This is very true. When a car comes in on my lane, my wife freaks out when I don't swerve out of the way or stab the brakes. I'm able to move out of the way just enough to avoid getting hit, without surprising other drivers in other lanes, while I lay on the horn. I'm sure we all have our crit-sense about us on the road. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study of bike racer auto accident rates.

carpediemracing 

Fixed that for you

MDcatV

i dont think there are stats to back it up, but Jamie (EventServices) points out in his book that bike racers make better drivers.

waterrockets 

noted

I recall that. I'll bet that some insurance company has checked into various hobby involvement vs. claims, but I doubt they'd ever be interested in sharing anything that might lower rates.

UmneyDurak

Thanks, will keep this in mind.