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  1. #526
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    one time i rode my bike by echappist and he didnt wave to me.

  2. #527
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jandro View Post
    I don't believe he is any of those things. He is giving his feedback (as many others have). Easy on the name calling.

    As far as people commenting on your videos, I, personally, would put more stock in the feedback you get from seasoned racers in this forum, than random maybe-racers on YouTube. That's just me, though. You openly ask for "criticism" but when you get it, you're defensive and don't seem to take any of it to heart, which is a shame as there was tons of great suggestions thrown out.
    Please read HIS post above and apply the same filter to name calling. I was hoping for feedback and criticism strictly on bike racing and received personal assaults, name calling, and the like. I agree with you completely, Jandro! In one post he called me pathetic, accused me of shameless self-aggrandizing, a sycophant several times, and questioned my intelligence and motivation. This is a race video thread right?

    I apologize for calling him an ass, a bully, and a troll.

  3. #528
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    "Name calling" is when you call someone a name, not when you use a word.

  4. #529
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    my input on those videos?

    i honestly think its really difficult to tell what someone is doing in them when they're shot from the racer's perspective. there's a dude "collin" who posts stuff here and on our local list serve of races and "goon" rides, and all i get out of them is a pic of his cable housing.

    i do however think you guys should request that the race promoter put some padding on those light poles and fence posts, the kind like they have on ski lift towers.

  5. #530
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    "Name calling" is when you call someone a name, not when you use a word.
    Like this:
    1. I ate some really spicy food and when I took a poop it burned my *******...
    2. I ate some really spicy food and when I took a poop it burned ******* (directed at WR )
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  6. #531
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    Please read HIS post above and apply the same filter to name calling. I was hoping for feedback and criticism strictly on bike racing and received personal assaults, name calling, and the like. I agree with you completely, Jandro! In one post he called me pathetic, accused me of shameless self-aggrandizing, a sycophant several times, and questioned my intelligence and motivation. This is a race video thread right?

    I apologize for calling him an ass, a bully, and a troll.
    Well, it's a race video thread now that a mod had to combine two threads because you started your own when no one cared to respond to your post in the race video thread. So, yeah, it's a race video thread.

  7. #532
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    fwiw the very act of filming and posting ones own races, in all but very few scenarios, is by its very nature self aggrandizement.

  8. #533
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Like this:
    1. I ate some really spicy food and when I took a poop it burned my *******...
    2. I ate some really spicy food and when I took a poop it burned ******* (directed at WR )
    Do I need to go back over to the other thread and grab my donkey photo, *******?

  9. #534
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    i do however think you guys should request that the race promoter put some padding on those light poles and fence posts, the kind like they have on ski lift towers.
    Agreed. We may actually have a closed road paved for the purpose of bike racing at our velo park. That would also solve this issue.

  10. #535
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    Well, it's a race video thread now that a mod had to combine two threads because you started your own when no one cared to respond to your post in the race video thread. So, yeah, it's a race video thread.
    Fair enough.

  11. #536
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    fwiw the very act of filming and posting ones own races, in all but very few scenarios, is by its very nature self aggrandizement.
    I self aggradize daily...


    To a pic of a Fuji...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  12. #537
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    As always, I appreciate your impassioned response. It would be sage advice if any of your assumptions were correct. Videos are produced garner about 50,000 hits a year on YouTube and other sources. In the four months I have been producing material for this sponsor, they have moved about 20 bikes specifically attributed to videos I've created and races I've attended. Your assumption that “no one cares” is just inaccurate. You may not, the viewers of this forum may not, but those in the market for these bikes do.
    50,000 hits!? Why, some of those might even originate from the Greater Boise Metropolitan Area! Some of them might even watch your whole soliloquy at the beginning of the movie! Some of those might even click the link!

    LOL. If it's true that they've sold 20 bikes thanks to sponsoring you that they otherwise wouldn't have - good for them, though whether that constitutes a justifying return yet on their investment, I have no idea. I have to wonder how they arrived at that figure, though - figuring out sponsorship value is notoriously difficult. I'm inclined to think that their attribution of sales to their sponsorship of you has more to do with business incompetence and wishful thinking than reality.

    Forgive my skepticism, but if getting a return on sponsorship is as easy as giving ten grand worth of gear to a low-level totally unremarkable amateur and having them film their races and post the videos, you'd think massive sponsorship of low-level amateur racers would be commonplace. But it's not, because below the elite level (possibly at it as well) it's well-known that sponsorship of amateur racers is a money sink. It has more to do with community than business. I mean, look, no offense, but you're not exactly Martin Scorsese. So yeah, I find it very hard to believe that your videos and racing are producing a profit for your sponsor. But like I said, that's their problem, not mine.

    And echappist has it dead on. Think about your races. Write up a race report. Think about the advice you get. Don't just get snappy and defend yourself. Your videos and responses show that you think very highly of yourself, which is fine I suppose, and that your ego doesn't really deal well with criticism, which is less fine if you want to become a better bike racer.

    And hey, I'll defend him, since we've had our own disagreements before: he upgraded to Cat 3 recently on points, which came from some consistently strung-together strong results, as a result of both good fitness and smart racing. Cat 3 isn't exactly the cream of the crop, but it's progress. The proof is in the pudding - better training + learning + better racing = improving results. Don't you want your results to improve? Those who've made it have something to offer.

    By the way, it's just grolby. Lowercase 'g'.

    Oh, and no one cares about the bike you're riding. Still.

  13. #538
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    50,000 hits!? Why, some of those might even originate from the Greater Boise Metropolitan Area! Some of them might even watch your whole soliloquy at the beginning of the movie! Some of those might even click the link!

    LOL. If it's true that they've sold 20 bikes thanks to sponsoring you that they otherwise wouldn't have - good for them, though whether that constitutes a justifying return yet on their investment, I have no idea. I have to wonder how they arrived at that figure, though - figuring out sponsorship value is notoriously difficult. I'm inclined to think that their attribution of sales to their sponsorship of you has more to do with business incompetence and wishful thinking than reality.

    Forgive my skepticism, but if getting a return on sponsorship is as easy as giving ten grand worth of gear to a low-level totally unremarkable amateur and having them film their races and post the videos, you'd think massive sponsorship of low-level amateur racers would be commonplace. But it's not, because below the elite level (possibly at it as well) it's well-known that sponsorship of amateur racers is a money sink. It has more to do with community than business. I mean, look, no offense, but you're not exactly Martin Scorsese. So yeah, I find it very hard to believe that your videos and racing are producing a profit for your sponsor. But like I said, that's their problem, not mine.

    And echappist has it dead on. Think about your races. Write up a race report. Think about the advice you get. Don't just get snappy and defend yourself. Your videos and responses show that you think very highly of yourself, which is fine I suppose, and that your ego doesn't really deal well with criticism, which is less fine if you want to become a better bike racer.

    And hey, I'll defend him, since we've had our own disagreements before: he upgraded to Cat 3 recently on points, which came from some consistently strung-together strong results, as a result of both good fitness and smart racing. Cat 3 isn't exactly the cream of the crop, but it's progress. The proof is in the pudding - better training + learning + better racing = improving results. Don't you want your results to improve? Those who've made it have something to offer.

    By the way, it's just grolby. Lowercase 'g'.

    Oh, and no one cares about the bike you're riding. Still.
    Great post Grolby
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  14. #539
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    fwiw the very act of filming and posting ones own races, in all but very few scenarios, is by its very nature self aggrandizement.
    Filming is one thing. Analyzing a race after it's over, maybe sending it to your coach or a few teammates or close friends for their input, is one thing. Posting it on Youtube and counting the hits is completely different.

    Cat5's commenting on their own performance is laughable.

    Write a report from your perspective. Be humble. Stop self-promoting. Ask pointed questions. Leave "Thoughts?" to Stewart Smalley. We are here to help you, but if you think you already know the answers, we're going to ignore you.

  15. #540
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    i still can't get over the bike for a cat 5. I need to find better sponsors, or downgrade

    also i just self aggrandized to a picture of rkwaki w/ WR's fuji. So nice!
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  16. #541
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    You're points are valid. You don't know me so making assumptions is par. I am a low level racer trying to get better. Trying to increase the production value of the videos is a hobby, for sure. More than one camera gives the chance to tell a better story. There are plenty of one camera videos out there telling race stories. We were all inspired in 2009 by CDR. I try and tell a compelling race story with what I have but its clearly not your thing, or many here. The "soliloquy at the beginning of the movie" is a way of engaging the audience suggested by Youtube, but this crowd seams to hate it. That's cool. I have learned a ton from the conversation about what to do and how to evaluate it. I got lit up last year on this forum too but still learned a ton.

    It's funny that I got so worked up about comments from a guy who I thought was a pro by the way he was talking is recently a 3. That adds a lot of perspective. I am not at my 3 yet but should be by the end of the summer, on points...a few at a time,... here and there. Although, when I get there, it's going to be pretty miserable, as locally we have a deluge of CAT3 studs at all ages.

    grolby (little g): The sponsorship skinny, FYI, I get 3 bikes for the season each year; the Carbon road bike with Di2, TT Bike, and a cross bike, + a set of 38mm carbon clinchers, 50mm carbon tubies, 88mm carbon front, and a carbon disk for the TT. I give ALL of it back at the end of the season. Typical bikeshop sponsorship. They give away one of my bikes each year in a raffle and sell the rest at discount. This is 2nd year I've done it. The idea is that people can see their product at regional NW/SW events. It's not some kind of international marketing campaign. So, if I sold it as a sweet pro deal signing autographs at major events, sorry. It's not like that at all.

    To all, thank you for taking the time to share your criticism. I'm excited to take some of the suggestions and put them into the remaining races this season. Who knows, I may even post again when I've got some positive growth.

  17. #542
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    i still can't get over the bike for a cat 5. I need to find better sponsors, or downgrade
    Ouch! Not a CAT5, should be able to upgrade to a 3 before the end of summer.

  18. #543
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    "Name calling" is when you call someone a name, not when you use a word.
    This.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  19. #544
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    I self aggradize daily...


    To a pic of a Fuji...
    ooh, it's dirty right now too. Filthy. It's been groaning when pushed lately.

  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Filming is one thing. Analyzing a race after it's over, maybe sending it to your coach or a few teammates or close friends for their input, is one thing. Posting it on Youtube and counting the hits is completely different.

    Cat5's commenting on their own performance is laughable.

    Write a report from your perspective. Be humble. Stop self-promoting. Ask pointed questions. Leave "Thoughts?" to Stewart Smalley. We are here to help you, but if you think you already know the answers, we're going to ignore you.
    Exactly. He's coming here for affirmation, not advice.

    On an unrelated note, I can't believe he is subjecting himself to the torture of editing with Final Cut X. That is an unholy piece of crap designed by people who have never edited before in their lives.

  21. #546
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    one time i rode my bike by echappist and he didnt wave to me.
    He's a pro. He doesn't have to.

  22. #547
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    Ouch! Not a CAT5, should be able to upgrade to a 3 before the end of summer.
    Also, a 4 is just a 5 who's done 10 races (or less depending on clinics) without DNFing; I wouldn't make much of it.

    Bolded text is a pretty big assumption.

    A piece of advice that I've learned here (the hard way): speak less, listen more. Then do.
    Last edited by Jandro; 06-07-13 at 01:31 PM.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  23. #548
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    Ouch! Not a CAT5, should be able to upgrade to a 3 before the end of summer.
    so you've raced more than 10 races i see.....please tell me about you're vast knowledge of bike racing.

    still seems silly. my advice: race a lot more than you are, and you'll learn what you need to learn, and remember that cat 5-3 are all very similar. You don't see a big step up going from a 5->4->3, so if you are struggling in cat 4 races u might not what to upgrade even if you can get the points by the end of the season.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  24. #549
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    one time i rode my bike by echappist and he didnt wave to me.
    i was in dc one time and i asked if he wanted to ride with me, but instead of saying yes he sent back a long email with big words that i had to look up. He made me feel dumb and rejected me at the same time.
    That butthole!
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  25. #550
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    You're points are valid. You don't know me so making assumptions is par. I am a low level racer trying to get better. Trying to increase the production value of the videos is a hobby, for sure. More than one camera gives the chance to tell a better story. There are plenty of one camera videos out there telling race stories. We were all inspired in 2009 by CDR. I try and tell a compelling race story with what I have but its clearly not your thing, or many here. The "soliloquy at the beginning of the movie" is a way of engaging the audience suggested by Youtube, but this crowd seams to hate it. That's cool. I have learned a ton from the conversation about what to do and how to evaluate it. I got lit up last year on this forum too but still learned a ton.
    Just because YouTube suggests it doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just a thought. Regarding the inspiration by CDR, it's clear to see in every aspect of the videos. Here's the thing, and I don't at all mean it in a cruel way: CDR's captions are informed by decades of racing experience and work because he's deeply knowledgeable about what's going on in the race, what it means, why he's doing what he's doing, etc. You, on the other hand, are very inexperienced and don't really know what you're doing. Again, that's not meant to be insulting, it's just the truth. So the captions don't have much insight, rather they mostly betray your inexperience at reading what you're seeing in the race.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    It's funny that I got so worked up about comments from a guy who I thought was a pro by the way he was talking is recently a 3. That adds a lot of perspective. I am not at my 3 yet but should be by the end of the summer, on points...a few at a time,... here and there. Although, when I get there, it's going to be pretty miserable, as locally we have a deluge of CAT3 studs at all ages.
    I don't really get why the "deluge" of Cat 3 riders will be a problem. Similarly, I think it's a bit strange that Cat 2s complain about not getting upgrade points because of all the Cat 1 riders in their races. The ultimate goal is to get faster than them, yeah? So get the points by being faster. Unless the goal (for Cat 2 riders) is just the "prestige" of being a 1, I guess. But generally, if you're upgrading, you want to get fast enough to compete in your new category. If you need to gain that speed before rather than after the upgrade, well, you still need to gain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    grolby (little g): The sponsorship skinny, FYI, I get 3 bikes for the season each year; the Carbon road bike with Di2, TT Bike, and a cross bike, + a set of 38mm carbon clinchers, 50mm carbon tubies, 88mm carbon front, and a carbon disk for the TT. I give ALL of it back at the end of the season. Typical bikeshop sponsorship. They give away one of my bikes each year in a raffle and sell the rest at discount. This is 2nd year I've done it. The idea is that people can see their product at regional NW/SW events. It's not some kind of international marketing campaign. So, if I sold it as a sweet pro deal signing autographs at major events, sorry. It's not like that at all.
    It's not that you sold it as a sweet pro deal and that you had local fame or anything, it's that you made it sound like they just gave you $10k worth of gear. So you have to give it back to them at the end of the season. It still seems like a very strange risk of a fair bit of money, but it's maybe a bit less so. You should be aware, though, that this arrangement is NOT typical. At all. I've never heard of an amateur racer below Cat 1 or 2 getting a sponsor bike for the season (and it's not common at the higher level, either, unless you're on the Regional Badass and/or Development Team). Enjoy it, but don't think it's typical. I can only assume that Boise is a very weird place, or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Domestique View Post
    To all, thank you for taking the time to share your criticism. I'm excited to take some of the suggestions and put them into the remaining races this season. Who knows, I may even post again when I've got some positive growth.
    Post in the race report thread. Frequently. Seriously. Don't wait for positive growth. Taking race reports, questions, challenges there (with a humble attitude) will get you a lot further than posting videos.

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