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  1. #1026
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    What's kind of funny is that I'm all kinds of risk averse, at least I am to me. I've sat up in races just because I've had "a bad feeling" (and nothing happened). If I don't feel like I have a handle on things I will back off. Anything that I do on the bike I feel pretty comfortable doing it. It can be problematic if I need to go outside my comfort zone.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  2. #1027
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    I guess I'll be staring at asses for my next several group rides.
    5/20

  3. #1028
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    What's kind of funny is that I'm all kinds of risk averse, at least I am to me. I've sat up in races just because I've had "a bad feeling" (and nothing happened). If I don't feel like I have a handle on things I will back off. Anything that I do on the bike I feel pretty comfortable doing it. It can be problematic if I need to go outside my comfort zone.
    Same, and I think that's the big limiter in my bunch sprints (that I don't do any more).

  4. #1029
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    What's kind of funny is that I'm all kinds of risk averse, at least I am to me. I've sat up in races just because I've had "a bad feeling" (and nothing happened). If I don't feel like I have a handle on things I will back off. Anything that I do on the bike I feel pretty comfortable doing it. It can be problematic if I need to go outside my comfort zone.

    my last serious crash involved the 2 guys directly ahead of me getting tangled up. I went left to avoid, wheel I was on fell left, directly onto my front wheel. Suddenly I prefer more space.

    It comes and goes, and race brain definitely helps.

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  5. #1030
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinboogie View Post
    What could possibly go wrong with photographers spread across the road 50m past the Pro/1 finish?

    This. Gotta watch it in HD to see it all.

    Ha nice - I saw the winner's pic on fb, he looked pretty happy given he'd just crashed after winning!
    cat 1.

    blog

  6. #1031
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm risk adverse at the beginning of races and almost forget about risk as the race progresses and I have to start making moves. But I actually let people take the wheel I'm on a lot more now. First several races I would NOT let anyone take my spot and I would just take whatever spot I wanted. I think its a combination of getting smarter and also better opponents - now if someone really wants my position that bad I decide if I need it and often the answer is no so I let them have it.

  7. #1032
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    Ha nice - I saw the winner's pic on fb, he looked pretty happy given he'd just crashed after winning!
    I've noticed in a lot of SoCal (e.g., Bahati or Williams) videos that people are frequently on the course just passed the finish line. The one time I raced down there over the winter I noticed it, too. Is that a thing there or something? Kinda spooked me a bit to have to play dodge person when I was redlined.

  8. #1033
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    I don't keep my positions in the sense that it's pointless to be constantly fighting, when you can take advantage of a lull, and move straight to the front without braking.
    5/20

  9. #1034
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    I feel like I'm risk adverse at the beginning of races and almost forget about risk as the race progresses and I have to start making moves. But I actually let people take the wheel I'm on a lot more now. First several races I would NOT let anyone take my spot and I would just take whatever spot I wanted. I think its a combination of getting smarter and also better opponents - now if someone really wants my position that bad I decide if I need it and often the answer is no so I let them have it.
    I was pretty cavalier in my first ~20 races (I'm up to about 25 now ). Shot through little gaps, was comfortable making significant contact, etc. However, I crashed out pretty hard trying to get through a very small gap and have been pretty hesitant since. It's gotten better, but I'm much more aware of what I'm doing and am weighing the pros vs cons of a move in my head more so than in the past. I'm ok holding and taking a wheel, but if things are looking squirrely, I've leaned toward easing off. The physical pain is still there in my memory.

    With that said, you've got to shelter from the wind as much as you can if the opportunity is there.

  10. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    I guess I'll be staring at asses for my next several group rides.
    My first helmet cam camera was a 90 degree lens camera feeding into a camcorder. I called the first couple clips "the ankle and butt" videos. 130 degree lens was next, much better.

    Serious comment: stare past them.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  11. #1036
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    I've never caused a crash by blasting through a gap. I have slammed into someone who did the same thing from the other side of the guy beside us (I was on the left, he on the right). I think this was in 2006 or so. He gave me the spot. We talked after the race, he joined my team, so it couldn't have been that bad.

    I've fallen plenty of times because someone slid into my wheels, usually in rain or in the last turn or three of a bigger crit (almost always in NJ). I've also fallen over guys who have fallen in front of me, road races more than crits. I got taken out once.

    I learned a long time ago (maybe due to other training? because I'm wimpy?) that I have to battle using tactics, not brute strength. Therefore I don't push, I don't jam myself into gaps, I call it if two guys are hesitating (I'll tell them to hold or stay or whatever), etc etc. I can ride such that I can keep other guys from moving me, but in most cases they're trying to move me at a time it doesn't matter so I let them move me, like 5 laps to go or something. 200m to go I won't move.

    I'll do field sprints but not the super sketchy ones. Most of the riders I have some inkling what they'll do. The ones I don't know make me think twice. This is true especially when I traveled to races - SoCal, Michigan, PA, DE, and parts of NJ. CT/RI, the regular races I do, I know most of the riders so I have an idea of what to expect.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  12. #1037
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    I've noticed in a lot of SoCal (e.g., Bahati or Williams) videos that people are frequently on the course just passed the finish line. The one time I raced down there over the winter I noticed it, too. Is that a thing there or something? Kinda spooked me a bit to have to play dodge person when I was redlined.
    For the bigger crits, it's common to let photographers on the course just after the finish line for sprint shots. San Dimas had a line of red tape after the finish that I assumed was for official photos, and Cascade does that too.

    But in this case I think they were just too close to the finish, and/or didn't get out of the way in time.
    cat 1.

    blog

  13. #1038
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    For the bigger crits, it's common to let photographers on the course just after the finish line for sprint shots. San Dimas had a line of red tape after the finish that I assumed was for official photos, and Cascade does that too.

    But in this case I think they were just too close to the finish, and/or didn't get out of the way in time.
    FWIW, it's not really needed... Dave McLaughlin was off the course for this shot, shooting a 400mm f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender. He was outside turn 1 barriers, a full city block away from me. Of course, not everyone is carrying around $10K worth of glass just for a Cat 3 finishing sprint.

  14. #1039
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    For the bigger crits, it's common to let photographers on the course just after the finish line for sprint shots. San Dimas had a line of red tape after the finish that I assumed was for official photos, and Cascade does that too. But in this case I think they were just too close to the finish, and/or didn't get out of the way in time.
    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    FWIW, it's not really needed... Dave McLaughlin was off the course for this shot, shooting a 400mm f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender. He was outside turn 1 barriers, a full city block away from me. Of course, not everyone is carrying around $10K worth of glass just for a Cat 3 finishing sprint.
    I agree, there are usually photographers after the finish but usually a lot further down the road. This crew was too close. I think it's because they mostly had 300mm lenses at most. I've got a 200mm and I'd have to be that close to get a shot. And yeah, the pics of the winner on fb kinda looked like he was too happy to feel the pain yet.

    In the video, the guy in the hat juked to his left and the winner was going straight at him then he moved back to the right but it was too late and everyone scrunched into a 5' gap which wasn't enough.

  15. #1040
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Yeah, my 200mm on my 1D (1.3x crop) is good for about 25 yards or I have to start cropping.

  16. #1041
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Comments are appreciated, specially on final stretch. What could have I done to move up? I ended up sixth, and I think with better position I could have been in the money.



    Thank You.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  17. #1042
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    is there some like processed stabilization you can do to that?

  18. #1043
    Senior Member SpeshulEd's Avatar
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    I recommend this mount. It's helped the stabilization of my videos immensely.

    Amazon.com: K-EDGE GO BIG Pro Handlebar Mount for GoPro Hero (K13-420 Black): Camera & Photo
    Hey guys, lets go play bikes!

    Strava

  19. #1044
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ips0803 View Post
    is there some like processed stabilization you can do to that?
    Youtube, ran it through stabilize algorithm, just takes a while. It's better now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    I recommend this mount. It's helped the stabilization of my videos immensely.

    Amazon.com: K-EDGE GO BIG Pro Handlebar Mount for GoPro Hero (K13-420 Black): Camera & Photo
    I don't have GoPro.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  20. #1045
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Agreed, the K-Edge's are great. I have both front and back. They promised a Contour mount but since they died I guess it's not coming. Ball mounts are horrible for road videos. GL

  21. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    For the bigger crits, it's common to let photographers on the course just after the finish line for sprint shots. San Dimas had a line of red tape after the finish that I assumed was for official photos, and Cascade does that too.

    But in this case I think they were just too close to the finish, and/or didn't get out of the way in time.
    i'm glad those guys weren't seriously injured.

    at the crit, a photog jumped on the course just after the start/finish, with 4 or 5 laps to go. i don't know if he thought me and the few riders i was with were off the front (we weren't....just the opposite!), but it almost caused a crash for a meaningless shot. the rider in front of my just rotated off, the photog jumped out, then as i made a move to one side he also moved to that side. it all worked out ok, but not by much.

    and all for a meaningless mid-level race at an inconsequential point in the race...for riders who weren't even in a break.

  22. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    FWIW, it's not really needed... Dave McLaughlin was off the course for this shot, shooting a 400mm f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender. He was outside turn 1 barriers, a full city block away from me. Of course, not everyone is carrying around $10K worth of glass just for a Cat 3 finishing sprint.
    it's a great shot.

    regardless of how much one has invested in glass, telephoto adds a different feel. someone else's vision could require a different set up and a need to be closer.

    love that pic, though!

  23. #1048
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    *sigh* cali


    youtube's stabilization process makes my videos look weird, especially during the sprint, when the camera goes side to side, so I just don't use it. but then again, my handlebar mount I have (same one speshuled mentioned) does a pretty good job holding it all together.
    5/20

  24. #1049
    Senior Member zitter's Avatar
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    final lap from my crit yesterday. gopro was on my teammates helmet and i was right behind him for the most part, but got swarmed just before the last corner. made up a lot of ground during the sprint but could only manage 4th (I come by on the right at 1:16)

    0/35

  25. #1050
    Senior Member ShutUpLegs's Avatar
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    Wow that guy that attacked late and I assume won, looked like he shot out of a cannon. Good move on his part
    BLOG --> http://goingoffthefront.blogspot.com/

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