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  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Comments are appreciated, specially on final stretch. What could have I done to move up? I ended up sixth, and I think with better position I could have been in the money.



    Thank You.
    It looks like you had good position going into the sprint, but the last straight was only about 20 seconds long - you could have gone from the corner? Now it's fuzzy as I've been looking after Junior after I watched the end of the clip, but at 5:35 you're basically good to go to the line.

    Also, and please don't take this as other than an objective view, a good sprint is one where you blast by the other guys who are going their max speed. Passing blowing up riders doesn't count. If you're not one of the few guys blasting by others in the sprint then you need to be as far forward as possible, even leading out the sprint. You'll also do better in sprints that start at high speed, rather than sprints that start slower or after a second or two of coasting through a turn.

    Not sure where the wind was from but when I skimmed through the clip there were a few times where you could have slid up the right side and moved up. I couldn't see if there were guys to your inside, if the wind was from the right, but that would have been a viable move. The last turn also, can't see what happened to the right but the left seemed a bit crowded. Was the wind from the right? Tailwind?

    At the very beginning you were sitting second wheel and dying to hang on. Second wheel is not a great shelter position - it might have been better to let the guy go and ease back into the field, sit maybe 10th-15th wheel, behind at least a 3-wide bunch of riders. Sitting behind one rider doesn't offer as much shelter as sitting behind a 3-wide bunch of riders, or even 2-wide. Sitting behind more-than-one-wide means you get shelter from the wind even from the sides. At the back you get sucked along, but those roads (yellow line rule not in effect) seem pretty narrow, the pace pretty fast/steady, so I imagine it would have been hard to move up or it'd have increased the chances of getting caught behind a crash if you sat at the back.

    Overall I think you did fine, it's just honing your tactics to your strengths/weaknesses. 6th is a great place in a race so you did great. I'd take a 6th any time I could, except the rare occasions where I get better than a 6th. All the wins and stuff you see here on BF are anomalies - a top 6 is a great result.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  2. #1052
    Senior Member Inquisitor.'s Avatar
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    Sometimes hard work pays off, and things end up as they should.


  3. #1053
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    Make sure you use the table of contents to skip to the good parts. I positioned myself so well for the sprint, specially considering I started in 60th place and had to maneuver through riders on a tiny single lane and then blew the sprint.


  4. #1054
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Thank you for taking time to reply and analyze my vid. Replies are below.

    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    It looks like you had good position going into the sprint, but the last straight was only about 20 seconds long - you could have gone from the corner? Now it's fuzzy as I've been looking after Junior after I watched the end of the clip, but at 5:35 you're basically good to go to the line.
    At 5:35? That seems a tad to far from the line. There is still a roller, long down hill, and flat. Before right turn to a down hill, 6:29, we are going in to the wind. So for the final curving right to finish the wind is from the left. I had room? Really didn't seem that way. On a downhill I was spinning out. There was an opportunity at 7, but I think I was still spinning out at that point. Will keep an eye on it next time.

    Also, and please don't take this as other than an objective view, a good sprint is one where you blast by the other guys who are going their max speed. Passing blowing up riders doesn't count. If you're not one of the few guys blasting by others in the sprint then you need to be as far forward as possible, even leading out the sprint. You'll also do better in sprints that start at high speed, rather than sprints that start slower or after a second or two of coasting through a turn.
    The comment was in comparison. Last time I did this race I was one of the guys blowing up, so it was a good sprint all things considered, and not in overall terms. Which I agree in overall terms it wasn't all that stellar.

    [quote]Not sure where the wind was from but when I skimmed through the clip there were a few times where you could have slid up the right side and moved up. I couldn't see if there were guys to your inside, if the wind was from the right, but that would have been a viable move. The last turn also, can't see what happened to the right but the left seemed a bit crowded. Was the wind from the right? Tailwind?

    The wind was head on on descent, and on curving right from the left. I might need to re-evaluate my rear cassette for this race. I am running 50/34 front 12/27 on back. This allows to stay in big and not shift. Down side on the down hill section I spin out.

    At the very beginning you were sitting second wheel and dying to hang on. Second wheel is not a great shelter position - it might have been better to let the guy go and ease back into the field, sit maybe 10th-15th wheel, behind at least a 3-wide bunch of riders. Sitting behind one rider doesn't offer as much shelter as sitting behind a 3-wide bunch of riders, or even 2-wide. Sitting behind more-than-one-wide means you get shelter from the wind even from the sides. At the back you get sucked along, but those roads (yellow line rule not in effect) seem pretty narrow, the pace pretty fast/steady, so I imagine it would have been hard to move up or it'd have increased the chances of getting caught behind a crash if you sat at the back.

    Overall I think you did fine, it's just honing your tactics to your strengths/weaknesses. 6th is a great place in a race so you did great. I'd take a 6th any time I could, except the rare occasions where I get better than a 6th. All the wins and stuff you see here on BF are anomalies - a top 6 is a great result.
    At the time I thought that break would stick, in retrospect should have let it go. You are right. Only time I have seen break succeed is when one guy would ride of the front, and when gap is formed just hammer. They were also in CAT3s by middle of the season and kicking ass there.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  5. #1055
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    i'm glad those guys weren't seriously injured.

    at the crit, a photog jumped on the course just after the start/finish, with 4 or 5 laps to go. i don't know if he thought me and the few riders i was with were off the front (we weren't....just the opposite!), but it almost caused a crash for a meaningless shot. the rider in front of my just rotated off, the photog jumped out, then as i made a move to one side he also moved to that side. it all worked out ok, but not by much.

    and all for a meaningless mid-level race at an inconsequential point in the race...for riders who weren't even in a break.
    My philosophy when shooting is if I look down and see asphalt and don't see a pylon between me and the course, I'm in the wrong place. Murrieta crit was sketchy because they didn't have pylons after the finish line and so it was tough to know where to be. Turned out going wide into turn 1 was a popular move and yeah, that's where the photographers were. I may bring my own pylons next time.

  6. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    At 5:35? That seems a tad to far from the line. There is still a roller, long down hill, and flat. Before right turn to a down hill, 6:29, we are going in to the wind. So for the final curving right to finish the wind is from the left. I had room? Really didn't seem that way. On a downhill I was spinning out. There was an opportunity at 7, but I think I was still spinning out at that point. Will keep an eye on it next time.
    Sorry, my typo. 7:35, which makes more sense. It was just over 20 seconds from the end of the clip. 5:35 would have been a Cancellara kind of move!

    I think you're experiencing where a big gear could help a lot. I'd be in a 53x11 minimum on the fast downhills, and if I'd approached this as my A race I might even fit the tandem ring on (55x11). This would give me the ability to rest and recover on the downhills, leisurely pedaling to either hold or make up position, compared to the guys around me spinning like mad. I find big gears especially useful when moving up hard when guys have given up on moving up (so they tend to be less defensive). A few rpm can make a difference when I'm already stressed. On group rides, when I had the 55, there were some specific circumstances where the gear really worked well, typically in the "fast-but-not-coasting-in-a-tuck" type sections.

    Even in crits, on relatively flat sections, a big gear can really help punch up your speed. You can shift almost immediately in order to take advantage of the extra time you have on the gear, meaning if you drop your rpm you have more downstroke time on the jump. Of course this depends on your physiology - for me it works because I have good burst power, but if I try and spin a little gear I'm redlined pretty quickly.

    Okay on the good sprint, it's hard to convey those things in the few lines of text you can use. As far as the sprint goes recently I've had similar type sprints. I realize now that for me positioning is much more critical than it was before. I used to assume that I could pass 5-10 riders in the sprint and hoped that the good sprinters wouldn't be in front of them (they usually were). Now I don't assume I can pass - I hope but I don't assume. In that kind of situation I'd be focusing on getting the best position, even "sprinting backward" i.e. being too far out and then getting passed. In one race in the rain I did that, I knew I couldn't go from the last turn but I also knew I had to be first through the last turn due to the rain (and my wood-like prematurely aged clinchers). I led out the sprint and got 3rd, which is only one place worse than I ever did in my life on the course. I was disappointed as I crossed the line but the reality was that the 3rd place was probably the absolute max for me that day. Now I'd kill for a 3rd there.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  7. #1057
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor. View Post
    Sometimes hard work pays off, and things end up as they should.

    Ha that's great. The problem took care of itself!
    pro-meter: lol

    blog

  8. #1058
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor. View Post
    Sometimes hard work pays off, and things end up as they should.

    what overlay software are you using here? also hilarious.

  9. #1059
    Senior Member Inquisitor.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    what overlay software are you using here? also hilarious.
    I use a Garmin Virb and a Virb Elite camera with Virb Edit software. I love the cameras and the software is easy to use.

  10. #1060
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collin2985 View Post
    Make sure you use the table of contents to skip to the good parts. I positioned myself so well for the sprint, specially considering I started in 60th place and had to maneuver through riders on a tiny single lane and then blew the sprint.

    how did you make the battery last 2 hours? did you switch out the battery somewhere in the middle, while you were still racing??
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  11. #1061
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor. View Post
    Sometimes hard work pays off, and things end up as they should.

    I need to learn that jedi mind trick
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  12. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    how did you make the battery last 2 hours? did you switch out the battery somewhere in the middle, while you were still racing??
    I got new batteries recently for my gopro2 and they last around 2 hours and 15 minutes. After 3 months or so they start losing some longevity.

  13. #1063
    Senior Member Inquisitor.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collin2985 View Post
    I got new batteries recently for my gopro2 and they last around 2 hours and 15 minutes. After 3 months or so they start losing some longevity.
    One thing I like about the Garmin Virb is that the battery lasts close to 3 hours.

  14. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor. View Post
    One thing I like about the Garmin Virb is that the battery lasts close to 3 hours.
    My girlfriend got me one about a month ago. My favorite thing is that you can control it from the headunit(garmin810), i snap pics with it all the time!!
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  15. #1065
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collin2985 View Post
    I got new batteries recently for my gopro2 and they last around 2 hours and 15 minutes. After 3 months or so they start losing some longevity.
    oh what was I thinking. my gopro lasts 2.5 hours. With good care, lithium ion batteries can last a long time. But detachable battery is a definite plus.

    If I get another camera in the future it probably won't be a gopro. It will probably be a garmin or a contour. They make it easy to switch from record to off. Gopro has nice features like cameras, 10 second snapshots, and some other stuff, but I never use them. I mean the iphone does them way better.
    1

  16. #1066
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    Sorry, my typo. 7:35, which makes more sense. It was just over 20 seconds from the end of the clip. 5:35 would have been a Cancellara kind of move!

    I think you're experiencing where a big gear could help a lot. I'd be in a 53x11 minimum on the fast downhills, and if I'd approached this as my A race I might even fit the tandem ring on (55x11). This would give me the ability to rest and recover on the downhills, leisurely pedaling to either hold or make up position, compared to the guys around me spinning like mad. I find big gears especially useful when moving up hard when guys have given up on moving up (so they tend to be less defensive). A few rpm can make a difference when I'm already stressed. On group rides, when I had the 55, there were some specific circumstances where the gear really worked well, typically in the "fast-but-not-coasting-in-a-tuck" type sections.

    Even in crits, on relatively flat sections, a big gear can really help punch up your speed. You can shift almost immediately in order to take advantage of the extra time you have on the gear, meaning if you drop your rpm you have more downstroke time on the jump. Of course this depends on your physiology - for me it works because I have good burst power, but if I try and spin a little gear I'm redlined pretty quickly.

    Okay on the good sprint, it's hard to convey those things in the few lines of text you can use. As far as the sprint goes recently I've had similar type sprints. I realize now that for me positioning is much more critical than it was before. I used to assume that I could pass 5-10 riders in the sprint and hoped that the good sprinters wouldn't be in front of them (they usually were). Now I don't assume I can pass - I hope but I don't assume. In that kind of situation I'd be focusing on getting the best position, even "sprinting backward" i.e. being too far out and then getting passed. In one race in the rain I did that, I knew I couldn't go from the last turn but I also knew I had to be first through the last turn due to the rain (and my wood-like prematurely aged clinchers). I led out the sprint and got 3rd, which is only one place worse than I ever did in my life on the course. I was disappointed as I crossed the line but the reality was that the 3rd place was probably the absolute max for me that day. Now I'd kill for a 3rd there.
    Thanks for additional info. Sorry I should have put the text in to context.
    I know position is critical, but I don't seem to know how to stay there in final laps. I can be in top ten most of the race, then final push comes, and I get swarmed to 15+.

    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    oh what was I thinking. my gopro lasts 2.5 hours. With good care, lithium ion batteries can last a long time. But detachable battery is a definite plus.

    If I get another camera in the future it probably won't be a gopro. It will probably be a garmin or a contour. They make it easy to switch from record to off. Gopro has nice features like cameras, 10 second snapshots, and some other stuff, but I never use them. I mean the iphone does them way better.
    Contour went out of business. There was some talk about it being brought back thought...
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  17. #1067
    Senior Member SpeshulEd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    oh what was I thinking. my gopro lasts 2.5 hours. With good care, lithium ion batteries can last a long time. But detachable battery is a definite plus.

    If I get another camera in the future it probably won't be a gopro. It will probably be a garmin or a contour. They make it easy to switch from record to off. Gopro has nice features like cameras, 10 second snapshots, and some other stuff, but I never use them. I mean the iphone does them way better.
    How do you get 2.5 hours, I run mine at 720p video and it still dies before that. However, I also do a snapshot every 60sec along with the video, maybe thats the problem.

    I usually do the camera only set to every 10sec when I'm out by myself. That way, I get a handful of decent shots of the scenery. The videos are usually so boring when there is no one else around.
    Hey guys, lets go play bikes!

    Strava

  18. #1068
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    When I do long training rides I use the Bacpac on my gopros. With 64GB cards I can get 4:20 out of it. Beware, the files are huge. When I'm shooting races I use one of the two battery packs below which makes the internal gopro batteries pretty much just for backup. I still bring extra gopro batteries in case everything dies. GL

    2.6A Battery backup
    12A Battery backup

  19. #1069
    Senior Member SpeshulEd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinboogie View Post
    When I do long training rides I use the Bacpac on my gopros. With 64GB cards I can get 4:20 out of it. Beware, the files are huge. When I'm shooting races I use one of the two battery packs below which makes the internal gopro batteries pretty much just for backup. I still bring extra gopro batteries in case everything dies. GL

    2.6A Battery backup
    12A Battery backup
    Hmm, not a bad idea. I might try this option for one of my next centuries - do you just mount it to the bike with zip ties or something?
    Hey guys, lets go play bikes!

    Strava

  20. #1070
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Here's the bacpac + external battery using the vented case back piece. The velcro is just to prevent slippage. I recommend the industrial strength velcro. It still comes off the plastic with some effort, leaves no residue and holds much better than the basic velcro does.

    bacpac-1.jpg bacpac-2.jpg bacpac-3.jpg

    There's still a chance the cable could work loose from vibration so in that case you can use rubber bands to help keep the connector to the case or battery like this.

    bacpac-4.jpg

    If you don't use the bacpac then you would have to cut a hole in the front piece of the case as a last resort. It'll never go under water again and cases are like $50.

    Instead, I've been using the Gopro Frames. The lens is unprotected so taking a bit of a chance so not good for all rides. I hope that helps.
    Last edited by kleinboogie; 04-13-14 at 04:33 PM.

  21. #1071
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    How do you get 2.5 hours, I run mine at 720p video and it still dies before that. However, I also do a snapshot every 60sec along with the video, maybe thats the problem.

    I usually do the camera only set to every 10sec when I'm out by myself. That way, I get a handful of decent shots of the scenery. The videos are usually so boring when there is no one else around.
    I keep my gopro in a drawer out of the sun or anything that could hurt it. I also only use it for races. I shoot at 720p 30fps, not 60. I don't keep the files after I upload to youtube, so 60 is redundant. And I don't know how much it matters but I use the open case, not the waterproof one. It helps to dissipate heat from the battery, though I don't know by how much
    1

  22. #1072
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Ended up with another 6th. In last lap and a half, I got swamped so going in to final lap moved in to the wind to gain places. Not sure what else I could have done in terms of moving up, or not getting swamped.
    After Guys in the front imploded going in to final sprint, I think going on left was a mistake. Not sure why I went there instead of right. I think there might have been someone to my right. I ended up in the wind, and didn't have quite enough to hold of other people. Although compared to sprints last year I think there is a mark improvement.

    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  23. #1073
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Ended up with another 6th. In last lap and a half, I got swamped so going in to final lap moved in to the wind to gain places. Not sure what else I could have done in terms of moving up, or not getting swamped.
    After Guys in the front imploded going in to final sprint, I think going on left was a mistake. Not sure why I went there instead of right. I think there might have been someone to my right. I ended up in the wind, and didn't have quite enough to hold of other people. Although compared to sprints last year I think there is a mark improvement.


    Nice. The wheel you're on for most of that last lap is one of my teammates. 14 year old kid that is stronger than he knows (crashed hard in the 3/4s and will need a new bike, too). Funny, we tell him he rides like he's got a bobble head, now we have proof.

  24. #1074
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    Nice. The wheel you're on for most of that last lap is one of my teammates. 14 year old kid that is stronger than he knows (crashed hard in the 3/4s and will need a new bike, too). Funny, we tell him he rides like he's got a bobble head, now we have proof.
    Glad I could help. lol. I could have swore I was directly behind Alto Velo guys. Funny how memory works.
    I hope the kid is OK.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  25. #1075
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Glad I could help. lol. I could have swore I was directly behind Alto Velo guys. Funny how memory works.
    I hope the kid is OK.
    He's fine, some scrapes and such. Not sure what happened in the crash, but seat stays and chain stays are crushed, the rear derailleur ripped off, and the front wheel's spokes are shredded.

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