bdcheung

Has anyone here ever followed the full Tabata protocol, doing the sessions 5 days a week for 6 weeks? Can you comment on how that affected your ATL/CTL, any mental effects, and how it affected race performance?

SpongeDad

Do you have a link for the 5day/6week recommendation?

That looks like a young man's regime - I think my knees would blow and my lungs explode.

I tried to do Tabata indoors on my KK Road Machine once, but ended up with beaucoup wheel slippage. Might try again now on my rollers now that I have a resistence unit for it.

bdcheung

https://www.brianmac.co.uk/tabata.htm

"In Tabata's study, the researchers found that athletes who used the routine five days a week for six weeks improved their maximum aerobic capacity by 14% and improved their anaerobic capacity by 28%. A study of traditional aerobic training of running at 70% of aerobic capacity for 60 minutes for six weeks showed an improvement in aerobic capacity of 9.5% and no effect on anaerobic capacity."

I think doing Tabata's on rollers is a recipe for disaster. As you approach the end of the set, you ought to be nearing exhaustion, which may make it hard to stay on the rollers...

SpongeDad

Thanks - I'll bear the rollers comment in mind.

bdcheung

Or don't, and let me know how you do. Because I'd rather do the Tabatas on my rollers than out on snow/black ice-covered roads.

procrit

Looks like a great way to build some solid anaerobic power. However, I wouldn't do that for 5 days in a row. I don't care what TSS your software will predict, 5 days in a row of all out anaerobic work is going to leave you extremely sore and tired, and I doubt you'd complete 6 weeks of it without getting a cold or getting sick.

Just my opinion.

bdcheung

I read this snippet regarding positive gains by doing Tabatas less frequently:

After discussing them at some length with my physiologist friend who is a cyclist and a faculty member doing research studies at our cycling sports center, I've been doing them 2-3 days a week. This has been going on for the past five weeks but I'm not doing them more than 3 days a week because I'm still sticking to more traditional intervals (sprints, 6x3's and 9x3's, and 3x20's).

I tend to do them in the morning when I first get out of bed. I'm done in 10 minutes (the protocol, as I'm doing them, is 3 minutes warm-up, 8 reps of 20/10's, 3 minutes cool-down). This means on some days I'll do two workouts (tabatas in the morning and my normal interval session in the evening).

My observations:

1. my anaerobic threshold is through the roof right now. A year ago I lost two races because I couldn't sustain my final assault for very long, now I can stay anaerobic for a substantially longer period of time. There's no question in my mind that if I was in those races today I would have won them.

2. My recovery from sprints/surges is through the roof right now. This would be expected with tabata's (or other "crit" intervals, like 15"s/15"s), but I think the 10 second recovery window in tabatas is better for training your body than a 15/15.

3. While anaerobic and vo2 peak performance is up, I don't think tabata's have done squat for my endurance. Hence, I keep doing the 3x20's and 3 hour tempo rides.

So, with that in mind, I'm hopeful. Will start mixing in some Tabatas to replace my previous AWC workouts.

nafun

So, can we summarize as:
Very good for form but not good for fitness?

TideCrazy3193

What wattage does he recommend doing these intervals at?

YMCA

kidding, right?
all-out has no wattage!
go as hard as you can for 20", rest 10", go again
way too painful for the average mortal

bdcheung

over on the Wattage group, people are reporting that analysis of their workouts over time shows the average interval to be roughly 210% of FTP.

nafun

No. Original protocol specified 170% of power at VO2max. I am not sure how power at V02max was measured. The intervals were performed on an ergometer set to this power. The riders were told to maintain 90rpm, and if they dropped below 85rpm they were stopped for that day.

So, without knowing precisely what power these should be done at, we can conclude that you are not supposed to fade throughout the session. Pick a power at which you can complete 6 to 10 intervals, which will be much lower than "all out" at the beginning.

merlinextraligh

In this context, I think "all out" means as hard as you can maintain for the prescribed time, and number.

Shayne

Does this mean that the last 20 sec. should be at the same power as the first 20 sec.? Or can the power fade as you go through the workout? Would you have to go a little easier on the first one, so you can hold that power through each interval?

nafun

Ok, that sounds better.

*edit* but, in that context, all out does have a wattage.

nafun

maintain implies no fade.

kensuf

Guys, I think you're over analyzing this.

nafun

Nice avatar

kensuf

In the blow-up you can see the drool running down my chin before the blow-up.

dadof7

i tried these last year, ...for about 2 weeks...on my roller trainer. Very exciting. They never get easier. They do seem to help the top end performance, could finally climb a hill without dying. But i found excuses not to do them. They are very hard to do all out on the roller,( I wore my helmit!) will try it on my new resistance unit, as soon as i get a little more conditioned...its like getting the flu on purpose.

wfrogge

Theres one key you are missing here... THEY WERE ALL UNTRAINED SUBJECTS! You stick anybody on a bike 5 days a week for 6 weeks and they will improve

wfrogge

All out is all out.... Go hard or go home.

nafun

Once again, from:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392

"The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout."


This article:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/8093344/Tabata-Method
claims (on page 9):

"Dr. Tabata's test was much more effective as it produced a positive response on athletes who were already in shape."

brittle

Yes, but not one you can describe as some percentage of FTP. Or rather, the percentage will be very different for different people.

nafun

The protocol specified the power in terms of power @ VO2max, not FTP. I don't know how to convert. So, without VO2 measurement apparatus, you just have try it. Guess a power based on prior interval types you've tried. If 8 sets is easy, do a few more sets and remember to do them at higher power next time. If you could only do 4 at that power, stop and remember to do them at lower power next time. It sounds like these intervals should basically be done to "failure".

*edit* so chicks should dig them?