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Old 08-18-11, 08:20 AM   #1
rotti
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Help with HR Data

Today I did a 60 minute threshold test on my trainer. I used a tt bike in the aero position. I used a new cyclocomputer so I can't verify the complete accuracy of the mph. I set the wheel circumference as recommended. However, it's the heartrate that I'm wondering about. The numbers seem very low to me.

After a 15 minute warm up

0-30 minutes HR= 129
30-45 minutes HR= 136
45-60 minutes HR= 147

The speeds (again just for reference) the 1st 30 minutes I averaged around 29 mph. The 30-45 minute range about 30 mph and the final 15 minutes 32 mph. I finished wiht 30.26 miles in 60 minutes. My legs were fried. Judging by the HR I'm wondering if I would have been better off in a smaller gear early on? Maybe this indicates I have to improve on my muscular endurance to match my cardioresp. system. IDK, maybe it doesn't mean anything at all...lol. FWIW, I just came off a 8 week block of tri training and I feel I really built up my endurance with the added running and swimming. Now I'm trying to build my cycling back up for a late season surge. Any thoughts on interpreting the limited data from my test? Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:12 AM   #2
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I think there's a world record waiting for you to break it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record
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Old 08-18-11, 09:55 AM   #3
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My thought is you were nowhere near your threshold. What is your HR when your pushing hard at the end of an hour run? That's closer to what you need to shoot for. And speed isn't a good metric, especially on a stationary bike. It is hard to get your HR up inside for a lot of folks, but you can do it.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:08 AM   #4
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I think there's a world record waiting for you to break it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record
yeah I knew I would take crap for posting the numbers. I wasn't going to, but I did it to show the mph increase with the changes in HR. Something is very off with my computer on the trainer.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:12 AM   #5
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You might say.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:13 AM   #6
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That's what I thought about the threshold. My HR is about 155-160 when running at threshold. On one mile climbs on the bike I'm around 160. Longer tempo type climbs I'm about 145-150. The thing that has me confused is my legs were cooked. When I got to the 30 minute mark I thought there's no way I'm making it to 60.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:22 AM   #7
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maybe tighten down the pressure knob on your trainer?
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Old 08-18-11, 11:22 AM   #8
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You might sanity check the HR reading by counting off your pulse for a minute. It sounds like you're more reasonable on the running threshold, so is that with the same HRM?

You might just have a mental barrier to get over too. You say you were doubting yourself at 30 minutes, yet you ramped it up from there. Maybe the leg sensations are so different from running? Maybe time for a little HTFU?

One thing speed is good for on a trainer is relative resistance. It's not quite linear, but will be close to linear in smaller ranges (like from 30-32mph). I could be way off about this, but I know RR is linear, but rotational air resistance would be quadratic. Anyway, you might try a ramp test, where you set the resistance high enough that you feel like you're at tempo around 20mph. Then ramp up 1mph every minute until you crack, and see where your HR goes. When you have a protocol, the HTFU comes easier.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:25 AM   #9
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You may have collected some numbers, but I would hardly call any of it useful data.

As Crash pointed out, you need to tighten down your trainer to get some resistance.

Next, when you do your 60 minute TT you should be at a pace that you think you can hold the entire time, maybe with a slight increase in the second half. Varying my 3 mph and 18 bpm tells me that you picked up the pace a LOT in the second half.

All you can do with this data is be sure that your threshold heart rate is at least 129 bpm and probably above 136 bpm. It's not very useful until you can complete the test for real.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:37 AM   #10
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yeah I knew I would take crap for posting the numbers. I wasn't going to, but I did it to show the mph increase with the changes in HR. Something is very off with my computer on the trainer.
Sorry, my reading comprehension is off a lot. I missed the "on the trainer" part of your first sentence, I just got sucked into by the numbers.
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Old 08-18-11, 12:10 PM   #11
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Thanks for the info so far. Maybe I paced too much in the beginning. It's the first time I've done this in a while. I've searched the topic and found that some people can't get anywhere near their threshold indoors. Maybe that had something to do with it.

As for the trainer. Everything is exactly the same with the exception of aeropositioning and a new (cheap) computer. I have the knob painted so I know exactly where to start it and how many revs to make. The tire and bike are the same. On flat road (aerobike) I can maintain 24-25 mph pretty comfortably for 5 miles, then I run out of flat road. I feel like I could maintain that pace for a while. Is 5 mph more that unreasonable for an indoor trainer? Again, I'm thinking the computer is whacked, but .....is it possible that it's not? Please don't flame, I'm just asking.
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Old 08-18-11, 12:32 PM   #12
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As for the trainer. Everything is exactly the same with the exception of aeropositioning and a new (cheap) computer. I have the knob painted so I know exactly where to start it and how many revs to make. The tire and bike are the same. On flat road (aerobike) I can maintain 24-25 mph pretty comfortably for 5 miles, then I run out of flat road. I feel like I could maintain that pace for a while. Is 5 mph more that unreasonable for an indoor trainer? Again, I'm thinking the computer is whacked, but .....is it possible that it's not? Please don't flame, I'm just asking.
Forget about correlating the trainer speed to outdoor speed. It is irrelevant. The more important question is whether the trainer provides steady consistent resistance. If it's a trainer with a knob applying pressure on a tire I wouldn't expect the resistance to remain constant. With a better trainer (e.g. Kurt Kinetics) there is a known relationship between trainer speed and power and it's reasonably consistent.

Without a reasonable trainer, trying to extract any info from your HR data is hopeless as there are too many variables. If you want to check your trainer, see if you can borrow a powermeter from someone.

If your HR is substantially lower for a 1 hr threshold type effort on the bike vs run then my guess is you need to spend more time training on the bike. Eventually they should even out.
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Old 08-18-11, 01:03 PM   #13
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Ignore speed on the cyclometer when you are on the trainer (I've . Trying to do a 1 hour LTHR test is painful (that is why we do estimates/approximations). Here is what I'd do (just me). Use the average HR from the last 30 minutes of the test to give yourself an initial estimate of LTHR (from the numbers above, roughly 141). Then use the test protocol described in the training and fitness section to re-evaluate your numbers. Overtime, you will find your LTHR move up as you get increasingly strong in fitness.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...threshold-test

Unfortunately whatever you have done with running/swimming won't likely give you any gains in cycling--you'll be fitter overall, but not necessarily faster in the cycling discipline.

Out of curiosity, what is your weekly cycling load?
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Old 08-18-11, 01:25 PM   #14
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Ignore speed on the cyclometer when you are on the trainer (I've . Trying to do a 1 hour LTHR test is painful (that is why we do estimates/approximations). Here is what I'd do (just me). Use the average HR from the last 30 minutes of the test to give yourself an initial estimate of LTHR (from the numbers above, roughly 141). Then use the test protocol described in the training and fitness section to re-evaluate your numbers. Overtime, you will find your LTHR move up as you get increasingly strong in fitness.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...threshold-test

Unfortunately whatever you have done with running/swimming won't likely give you any gains in cycling--you'll be fitter overall, but not necessarily faster in the cycling discipline.

Out of curiosity, what is your weekly cycling load?
Right now it's 14 hours. That'll change next week when I go back to school (teacher). I cut it back to around 8 when I was training for a couple tri's.
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Old 08-18-11, 01:55 PM   #15
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a couple of serious thoughts..

cooling -- do you have a fan blowing on you? if I don't, I die on the trainer very quickly and just overheat, thus not able to do any work.

motivation -- music / tv or something else? the trainer can be mentally boring, some sort of distraction helps.

load on the rear wheel -- what cadence are you running? if you're running 90rpms (or lower), it's quite possible you're spinning out your gears (90 rpms in the 53x12 is 31mph). there may not be enough load on that rear wheel on your trainer.
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Old 08-18-11, 02:00 PM   #16
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a couple of serious thoughts..

cooling -- do you have a fan blowing on you? if I don't, I die on the trainer very quickly and just overheat, thus not able to do any work.

motivation -- music / tv or something else? the trainer can be mentally boring, some sort of distraction helps.

load on the rear wheel -- what cadence are you running? if you're running 90rpms (or lower), it's quite possible you're spinning out your gears (90 rpms in the 53x12 is 31mph). there may not be enough load on that rear wheel on your trainer.
this...i can maintain 30mph on my trainer too if there isn't enough load on the rear tire.

..in real life, on flat ground..a couple of minutes...
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Old 08-24-11, 11:40 PM   #17
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Yeah, it’s hard to really dig in on a trainer to find your limits. According to the tests I had done on a trainer this winter, I thought the highest HR I could keep up for 20 minutes was 170 bpm. I guess it was wrong:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105315686
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Old 08-25-11, 05:27 AM   #18
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I think the numbers you gathered are useless unless you do all your training indoors. My HR at 200w indoors is quite a bit different than 200w outdoors
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Old 08-25-11, 08:30 AM   #19
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Unfortunately whatever you have done with running/swimming won't likely give you any gains in cycling--you'll be fitter overall, but not necessarily faster in the cycling discipline
I can't think of anything less true than this. An aerobically fit you will always be faster overall on the bike than an unfit you. Pizza Man was a perfect case in point...elite level runner, jumped on the bike and nearly won the overall at a local hill climb. He improved with specific bike training but he was damn fast without it.

Rotti, you have a very nice bunch of numbers that don't indicate much. Because of the variability of HR and the issues with cooling and workload on a trainer, I'd strongly suggest doing any FTP type HR test (or power test for that matter) outdoors, preferably on a long, steady climb or on a long steady flat into a headwind. As suggested, I'd look at a 20 minute test then run the numbers off that. For HR, I'd want to see at least two tests whose results were very close; internal and external factors can move HR quite a bit.

And if you're using this as a training baseline always use PE in conjunction with HR for the reasons above. HR tells you where you WERE, not where you ARE in effort.
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Old 08-25-11, 09:04 AM   #20
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I can't think of anything less true than this. An aerobically fit you will always be faster overall on the bike than an unfit you. Pizza Man was a perfect case in point...elite level runner, jumped on the bike and nearly won the overall at a local hill climb. He improved with specific bike training but he was damn fast without it.
I was just regurgitating something I read in Joe Friel's blog:

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/08...ls-part-3.html

Ok, I stand corrected. He said: "For example, triathletes generally accept the notion that training on the bike will provide some running fitness. In fact, there is some research that indicates this is probably happening. But the cross-training benefits are not very great."
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Old 08-25-11, 09:42 AM   #21
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Ok, I stand corrected. He said: "For example, triathletes generally accept the notion that training on the bike will provide some running fitness. In fact, there is some research that indicates this is probably happening. But the cross-training benefits are not very great."
I'd absolutely agree when you're taking already fit, skinny, and trained folks that running more isn't going to make you a lot better on the bike, which is what Joel is talking about, in a triathlon context ("I don't like/can't ride the bike therefor I'll add extra running and this will compensate).

Any gain in aerobic fitness (or weight loss without losing power) will produce some gain on the bike, but you're going to hit a point where you've more or less tapped that out and training the cycling specific muscles will produce a lot more gain.

For new or less trained athletes they'll get a lot out of any aerobic training.
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Old 08-25-11, 09:51 AM   #22
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For new or less trained athletes they'll get a lot out of any aerobic training.
You are right. I was assuming that were discussing an intermediate level or higher athlete.
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