Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54
  1. #1
    a runner no more plantrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Competition C6 Fusion
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Pennsylvania masters

    Went out on a limb this weekend and requested an upgrade to cat 4 based on my 7 races to date - and was approved . That suddenly gives me a wealth of choices for upcoming races - instead of only qualifying for the cat 5 race, I can choose between Cat 4/5, Cat 3/4, or masters. I'm considering this race: https://www.bikereg.com/Net/15528 . Not interested in the Cat 4/5 race (I want the wall ), so it's between 3/4 and masters 40+. Between the two, the masters race distance (12 km shorter) is a better match with my current/expected fitness level - but am I going to regret choosing it? I've read all the comments about masters fields being brutal, was wondering if there's regional variations or pretty much to be expected anywhere.

  2. #2
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
    My Bikes
    2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
    Posts
    3,482
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by plantrob View Post
    ...Between the two, the masters race distance (12 km shorter) is a better match with my current/expected fitness level - but am I going to regret choosing it? I've read all the comments about masters fields being brutal, was wondering if there's regional variations or pretty much to be expected anywhere.
    Pretty much everywhere. A cat 1 is a cat 1. The distance won't be what gets you: it'll be the pace over that distance. Very much different than a cat 5 race: tactics, skills, fitness level. Everything.

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    ^with 7 races under your belt, you should be doing the 4/5.

    but between the 3/4 and the 40+, definitely the 3/4. unless you won all of your cat 5 races by soloing away and finishing minutes ahead of the field, you'll get destroyed in the 40+, and probably will in the 3/4 as well.

    i've done this race multiple times and will be there this year in the P12. i have team mates that could be in the P12 but opt for the 40+. that race will be fast from the start. it's a demanding race. the wall destroys legs, but the shallow grade over the top of it with the wind from the left is what destroys souls.

  4. #4
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    High Point, NC
    Posts
    6,044
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sshhhh... MDcatV.

    Don't listen to him plantrob. Do the Masters race. You'll be fine.

    Report back.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  5. #5
    a runner no more plantrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Competition C6 Fusion
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like MDcatV is genuinely trying to scare me (probably with good reason), while wanders is sadistically hoping for an interesting report of shame and defeat in the Race Report Threat
    I have a few weeks to think it over. One of my team mates (admittedly the strongest one) is racing the masters, which won't make much of a difference if I'm off the back in a jiffy...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    ^i'm not trying to scare you or to be a dick, just providing my opinion given that i've been doing this a while, have done that specific race, know the folks that'll be at the pointy end of the 40+, mentor new racers, and know the difference between the abilities of the new racers and the masters racers.

  7. #7
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    teh Jersey
    Posts
    15,629
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Ha. If you have to ask don't do the masters.

  8. #8
    Slave to my PM
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dirty Jersey
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The fact that you are considering the master race, since it is shorter and better suites your fitness, says you likely have no business being in that field. You are basically going from cat5 to trying to mix it up with 1 & 2's If you want to try that out, try it on somewhere where there is not a course feature that is going to be decisive. You are likely wasting your time by driving there and getting popped on the first lap.

    Also, I looked at the start times, so you could try the 40+ and if you get popped, then do the 4/5 if it does not fill up. If you go that route, I would just pre reg for both.
    Last edited by 45suited; 04-03-12 at 10:38 AM.

  9. #9
    a runner no more plantrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Competition C6 Fusion
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    MDcatV, that wasn't a dig in your direction - just my interpretation of the message you were sending (which is appreciated). I wasn't so sure of wanders' intentions

    Quote Originally Posted by 45suited View Post
    The fact that you are considering the master race, since it is shorter and better suites your fitness, says you likely have no business being in that field.
    If the masters is indeed going to be so much more intense than the 3/4, then it does sound like the 3/4, even at the extra distance, may be the better choice. I would rather race 84k (masters) than 40k (4/5) - just wasn't sure about that extra 12k (3/4), which takes me beyond my training ride distances.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45suited View Post
    Also, I looked at the start times, so you could try the 40+ and if you get popped, then do the 4/5 if it does not fill up. If you go that route, I would just pre reg for both.
    That's a good thought - thanks.

  10. #10
    a runner no more plantrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Competition C6 Fusion
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Took a look at last year's results. The 3/4 race was a bit faster than the masters 40+ race - at least judging by the time/lap of the winners:

    masters 40+: 19:12/lap (8 laps)
    cat 3/4: 18:38/lap (9 laps)
    P1234: 17:53/lap (10 laps)

    As they say - past results do not guarantee future performance; but they choose to start the masters after the cat 3/4, which would suggest that the organizers believe the 3/4 will be faster. Of course average speed doesn't paint the whole picture...

  11. #11
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    High Point, NC
    Posts
    6,044
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My second race ever was a Masters race. I had just finished my first race- a 4/5 on banked .5 mile track. I asked the race official if I could race even though I was only a cat 5.

    He let me.

    It was a combined field of 30+ and 40+ with the 40ers having red dots on their numbers. The 40+ paid 3 deep and I only saw 3 other red dots beside myself. I took a look at this one guy who appear to be in his 60's and thought to myself "Alright! All I have to do is follow this old goat around for 45 minutes, sprint past him at the end and I'm in the money."

    After I got lapped for the seventh time, I quit counting.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Wanders - lol.

    i remember the 1st masters crit i ever did, real crit, not industrial park crit. i was a 4. about 5 laps in i was the last guy in the shrinking thin line of racers that was the race. when ramon benitez and others lapped me, i rode off the course, up the garage ramp to my car, put my bike in the trunk, took my shoes off, and drove home. i've come a long ways.

    plantrob - if you do the 40+, pic of Ramon is below. All you'll have to do is follow him and sprint around him at the end.

    fieldsprint1.jpg

  13. #13
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Ffld Cnty Connecticut
    My Bikes
    Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
    Posts
    14,419
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    Wanders - lol.

    i remember the 1st masters crit i ever did, real crit, not industrial park crit. i was a 4. about 5 laps in i was the last guy in the shrinking thin line of racers that was the race. when ramon benitez and others lapped me, i rode off the course, up the garage ramp to my car, put my bike in the trunk, took my shoes off, and drove home. i've come a long ways.

    plantrob - if you do the 40+, pic of Ramon is below. All you'll have to do is follow him and sprint around him at the end.

    fieldsprint1.jpg
    Sounds pretty straightforward. I'm going to try that with gsteinb next time.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  14. #14
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    10,710
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Ha. If you have to ask don't do the masters.
    +1

    Don't let the "masters" title fool you. They are still very much 3/4 racers.
    Last edited by carleton; 04-03-12 at 03:34 PM.

  15. #15
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier trestina Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecanne Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2
    Posts
    26,708
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Plantrop,

    I'm a 52 year old Cat 3. I race both my category and Masters ( sometimes doubling up, sometimes picking the one that fits my schedule)

    A 3/4 race is definitely going to be easier than Masters 40+.

    The Master's race is essentially a P 1/2/3 race, with guys a few years older.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  16. #16
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    teh Jersey
    Posts
    15,629
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Lol.

    Ramon Benitz was the number one ranked masters rider in the country.
    That list is a who's who in NE masters racing.

    Masters racing is far more tactical meaning overall time may be slower but there will be decisive moments where your day is done.


    Quote Originally Posted by plantrob View Post
    Took a look at last year's results. The 3/4 race was a bit faster than the masters 40+ race - at least judging by the time/lap of the winners:

    masters 40+: 19:12/lap (8 laps)
    cat 3/4: 18:38/lap (9 laps)
    P1234: 17:53/lap (10 laps)

    As they say - past results do not guarantee future performance; but they choose to start the masters after the cat 3/4, which would suggest that the organizers believe the 3/4 will be faster. Of course average speed doesn't paint the whole picture...

  17. #17
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    teh Jersey
    Posts
    15,629
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    Sounds pretty straightforward. I'm going to try that with gsteinb next time.
    I'm usually with Ramon.

  18. #18
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,928
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i from a personal standpoint, i would like to read the race report if you do decide to do the master's race.

  19. #19
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    teh Jersey
    Posts
    15,629
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    One more resume item: Dave Taylor was the number one ranked cat 2 road racer in the country in 2010. In 2009 he, I, and one other storied masters RRer were the break at the tour of high bridge.

  20. #20
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    getting photographed by rockets...
    Posts
    8,115
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Another thing to remember is that the higher cat races (road races) usually start off at a much slower docile pace and then all hell will break loose so looking at average pace is very misleading. The first half may be at 21 mph then its go time with a finish of 26+ - makes the average look like a 23.5 but that would be very misleading. Did a crit a while back and most of the race was at a 24 (highly technical crit) - when I bridged the gap to the leaders I jumped at 30+ then went 28 lap after lap (corner crit i think) - ig difference between the two paces if you want to be a contender.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  21. #21
    a runner no more plantrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Competition C6 Fusion
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    i from a personal standpoint, i would like to read the race report if you do decide to do the master's race.
    OK, I'll commit to reporting on the results, whatever race I decide on entering and however humiliating the result

  22. #22
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Western MA
    My Bikes
    Yes
    Posts
    10,477
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I'm usually with Ramon.
    We both beat him at Thater. Certainly the highlight of my career.

    OP, one thing. Don't be fooled by what a Master declares as their category. Many of them used to be pros, 1's, and 2's, and downgraded to Cat3. They race Masters to race, and race Cat3 to win. They will crush 20 year old souls.

  23. #23
    On Tralfmadore saba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    North Beach, MD
    My Bikes
    T1, Absolutist, VisionLight
    Posts
    132
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And if you go masters you also get to meet Ramon and other masters racers "rubber band treatment," which you will enjoy thoroughly. Racing is also about learning and all of those guys have things to teach us up and comers, go get your race on, win some lose some rinse and repeat.
    I was really into bestiality, sadomasochism, and necrophilia, but then I realized I was just beating a dead horse

  24. #24
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Edge City
    My Bikes
    2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
    Posts
    10,537
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yesterday I was chatting some on an easy team ride with a new and pretty talented Cat 5 on our team. He was telling me how he won a race. It involved the Cat 5 field and a Masters 60+ field that started separately, but the officials screwed up and the fields eventually merged. He was smart enough to latch onto Dave Viney's wheel when DV finally decided that he had had enough. Eventually he couldn't hold his wheel any longer, but by that time he was so far in front of his Cat 5 race that he could limp home for the victory.
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  25. #25
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,351
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's another data point, not that you need it. A 40+ teammate of mine, who races P/1/2, M35+ and M40+, but focuses locally on the M40+ season championship, is a sprinter who can crank out 1600w.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •