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Old 04-18-12, 06:34 PM   #26
Beau210
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My conti sprinters haven't cost me any races yet.

In the end, tire selection matters about as much as jersey selection I'm willing to bet (flatting aside).
I dunno this year I went from racing gatorskins on my aksiums to the pro 3's and I could feel a huge difference.
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Old 04-30-12, 12:43 AM   #27
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For people who are using Vittoria Corsa Evo CX. Any comments on puncture resistance, or just longivity? I was thinking of going with them, but comments on roabikereview got me really concerned:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wh...3_5681crx.aspx

Thanks
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Old 04-30-12, 07:59 AM   #28
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i would agree with this re competitions vs gp4000s clinchers with latex tubes.

observationally, advantage of the conti tubs over vittorias or many others is they seem to be more durable/puncture resistant, but a supple otherworldly tubular experience (this is over-rated imo but that's another topic) they are not.
It's too bad that Conti doesn't make latex-tubed versions of it's tubular tires. I bet a GP4000S tubular with latex inner would check all the boxes for a great number of tubular enthusiasts.
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Old 03-12-14, 09:51 AM   #29
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So the corsa is like the typical go to tire for race day?
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Old 03-12-14, 10:19 AM   #30
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Looking for some good quality tubular race tires for my carbon wheels. Just got this wheelset and I'm not really sure what a good tire to put on them might be. Just looking for a point in the right direction. (searched for it but didn't see a previous thread on brands, pro's and con's of the different tires)
corsa CX/SC is a fine tire but don't expect huge miles from it. i get more miles than rkwaki does (more like 1,500 to his 1,000), but we're not talking 3,000.

the CS version is a slightly lighter, faster, and riskier tire, though it does now have puncture protection.

it's one of the better tubulars easily available to consumers. when you ride them you might find yourself thinking that a ride quality could not get better, unless you try something like an FMB.

since you asked, dugast and FMBs are interesting options. the ride quality of FMBs is actually (surprisingly) different than vittorias. i've spent more time on FMB road tires than dugast (but have ridden dugast cross, MTB and a couple road models), and they are even smoother. i was really surprised by this when first riding them because the vittorias are that good, but i did many comparisons on the same wheels and over the same roads. i'm a skeptic and it took a while for me to prove to myself it was, indeed, the tires. IMO, the paris-roubaix versions of the FMBs and dugasts are their signature tires but they are overkill for what most of us see and short of specific events. the pure road tires are really, really nice.

most tires including the vittoria use heat to bond the tread to the casing. the vittorias and FMBs do not. the heat changes the feel of the casing a bit in a way that i didn't now until riding the others.

not saying it matters to you or anyone else, but it is there.

there has been an issue with vittorias (if glued really, really well) where the tire casing will actually separate from the base tape during removal, which makes full removal a pain. this won't happen with continentals, FMBs, or dugasts. (main problem with contis is that the version available to consumers is NOT the pro version with latex tubes.)

if you decide you want to go that route shoot me a PM as i may be able to help you out depending on what you're looking for.
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Old 03-12-14, 10:30 AM   #31
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I just put corsa cx on my 404s and LOVE THEM. the ride is magical and night and day difference compared to the conti sprinters I was running. the conti's were butyl based though and it shouldn't be surprising that I noticed a difference.

My logic is that race season is from march to august for me.I can pretty much use them for races and occasional ride for the whole season and switch to my trainer wheels during the weeks. It was a bit pricey but I will be able to justify it if it lasts the whole season. I don't expect more than 1200-1500 miles.
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Old 03-12-14, 11:18 AM   #32
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what bladder does the corsa use, latex? that would help explain why some people complain about the air leaking out faster.

btw. if you haven't already noticed, the last post was from 2012.
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Old 03-12-14, 11:21 AM   #33
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what bladder does the corsa use, latex? that would help explain why some people complain about the air leaking out faster.

btw. if you haven't already noticed, the last post was from 2012.
yes
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Old 03-12-14, 12:10 PM   #34
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For people who are using Vittoria Corsa Evo CX. Any comments on puncture resistance, or just longivity? I was thinking of going with them, but comments on roabikereview got me really concerned:
Vittoria Corsa Evo CX Tires - Tubular Reviews - RoadbikeReview.com

Thanks
i wouldn't worry. someone always has a negative experience.

the vittorias have a puncture resistant belt, but it is not magic. it is possible to flat any tire in the first few miles of riding. running over a nail or glass is going to go through any puncture resistant layer of any tire that we want to ride.

what i find is that the corsas -- whether tubular or the clincher version -- have a very definite wear pattern/life-span. you'll figure out what it is for you. perhaps you'll find that you get 1,500 miles from them as i do.

if i try to push beyond that point, e.g., with the clincher version, i will tend to get a flat and if i change the tube another one is quite likely within the next 50-100 miles. essentially you'll find that the casing gets thin and you're more exposed. once i get one flat (in the clincher version) they're done, unless it was that rare early one cause by riding over a staple, but the rest of the casing is fine.

if you stay on top of them and replace them around that point, you may never/rarely flat.

that said, $hit happens and sometimes a tire gets slashed early and is beyond repair.
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Old 03-12-14, 12:14 PM   #35
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i wouldn't worry. someone always has a negative experience.

the vittorias have a puncture resistant belt, but it is not magic. it is possible to flat any tire in the first few miles of riding. running over a nail or glass is going to go through any puncture resistant layer of any tire that we want to ride.

what i find is that the corsas -- whether tubular or the clincher version -- have a very definite wear pattern/life-span. you'll figure out what it is for you. perhaps you'll find that you get 1,500 miles from them as i do.

if i try to push beyond that point, e.g., with the clincher version, i will tend to get a flat and if i change the tube another one is quite likely within the next 50-100 miles. essentially you'll find that the casing gets thin and you're more exposed. once i get one flat (in the clincher version) they're done, unless it was that rare early one cause by riding over a staple, but the rest of the casing is fine.

if you stay on top of them and replace them around that point, you may never/rarely flat.

that said, $hit happens and sometimes a tire gets slashed early and is beyond repair.
Wasn't this one of the reasons Armstrong always road dugust? or vittoria? in the early days. Claimed he always knew when it was going to wear out and replaced them right before that time point. I recall as he didn't flat much and an article was posted on it awhile back but I forget what brand it was.
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Old 03-12-14, 12:41 PM   #36
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Since this thread got bumped... I put Vittoria Corsa Evo CX tubular on my front carbon rim. I like them. The feel is good, the grip is solid. Only thing I don't like is that they loose air quite fast. I would say around 10-15 psi in less then 24 hours. Which is kind of a bummer.
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Old 03-12-14, 01:37 PM   #37
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Wasn't this one of the reasons Armstrong always road dugust? or vittoria? in the early days. Claimed he always knew when it was going to wear out and replaced them right before that time point. I recall as he didn't flat much and an article was posted on it awhile back but I forget what brand it was.
armstrong's tubulars were aged. people joke about that stuff, but i suspect it is mainly because (a) they haven't done it, or (b) they did it but with a vulcanized tire where it makes no difference. when you have one of the truly handmade tires, you can see the color of the sidewall will change a little over time and the tread will have a different character--you can see the response changes when you press a fingernail into it. it's easy to see when you have two side-by-side.

as to long-term durability and flat resistance, i couldn't really say though the people i trust on the subject who are close to the pro ranks say it translates to improved flat resistance. i can believe it based on how i see the tread respond but haven't ever run lots of tests on aged vs new tires like that.

the full handmade tires that aren't exposed to high heat just behave a bit different in those first 6-12 months and are different on the road. whether it is worth the cost is an altogether different matter, but there dis a difference.

side note: it's not widely known, but the manner in which tires are glued for, say, mark cavendish differs vs what is done for a domestique. cavendish's wheels get the full treatment, many layers, etc., but the teams have simply too many wheels to deal with to do more than the most basic job that still makes the tire relatively safe (albeit not the fastest). when you pull the tires off the rim you can tell the difference. i was surprised the first time i did it.
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Old 03-12-14, 06:18 PM   #38
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^

To add the Armstrong thing he rolled a base tape in his last Tour. I've seen one other tire by that same company roll a base tape, under a good friend of mine. I've also peeled my own tires off, base tape separating from the tire. I stopped buying/selling those tires back then and I still won't buy that tire because when Armstrong was using them they didn't seem all the different from when I had them. The base tape seemed much more fuzzy and the edges would peel just a touch. Not sure if the glue I used was a factor etc but since Vittorias etc work I stick with them (and Bontragers).

I watched a few team mechanics go over bikes after a stage of the Tour du Pont. On Lemond's bike (Z) they debated for a while about a tiny cut in the tread. They decided to go with superglue or something in the tread. On Dirk Dewolf's bike (Gatorade) the rims were so banged up even I wouldn't ride them, and my tolerance is pretty big, like 5mm is about when I start to think about truing wheels. The rim surface was hopping up and down and side to side. I couldn't believe it. The mechanic looked, thought it was fine, and that was that. On Bugno's bike (Gatorade) the mechanic must have thought I was a Shimano/news guy (I was taking pictures and stuff). He even removed the cartridge BB, wiped it down, put some grease on the threads, and put it back on. This was when those things were sort of new. He worked on that bike for probably 30 minutes until I left. Later I took a picture of my teammate touching Bugno's bike. Haha.

Oh and someone asked me if I wanted Lance Armstrong's autograph because he was "right there". I said no. Some kids actually went into the motel and knocked on his door (the room assignments were posted on the entrance door) and apparently he signed whatever they had. I was hoping for Lemond but he wasn't around.
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Old 03-12-14, 07:40 PM   #39
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To add the Armstrong thing he rolled a base tape in his last Tour. I've seen one other tire by that same company roll a base tape, under a good friend of mine. I've also peeled my own tires off, base tape separating from the tire. I stopped buying/selling those tires back then and I still won't buy that tire because when Armstrong was using them they didn't seem all the different from when I had them.
What tire are you talking about? That sounds scary.

Early-/mid-1990s?
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Old 03-12-14, 07:44 PM   #40
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Tubeless.
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Old 03-12-14, 08:12 PM   #41
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What tire are you talking about? That sounds scary.

Early-/mid-1990s?
Hutchinson. He rolled a basetape in the last Tour he did, the crash where he hit the deck at high speed. 2010? The mechanic talks about it in a Velonews article.

In 1997 I saw a number of Hutchinson tubulars off their base tape, one under one of my best friends in a race, others under my thumb. I returned all the tires I'd bought (20? 30? they were for the shop, the club, and for myself) and switched them out to EVOs.
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Old 03-12-14, 08:29 PM   #42
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Hutchinson.
thanks. the chemist posted above that lance may have been using dugast or vittorias and you didn't mention a brand, which is why i thought it worth clarifying.

neither dugast nor vittoria has an issue with base tape separation (other than a certain vintage of vittorias having the base tape remain attached to the wheel during removal), that i've seen.

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He rolled a basetape in the last Tour he did, the crash where he hit the deck at high speed. 2010?
gotcha. my post was unclear but my 'what year?' was directed toward your story about lemond and armstrong autographs.
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Old 03-12-14, 09:37 PM   #43
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gotcha. my post was unclear but my 'what year?' was directed toward your story about lemond and armstrong autographs.
1991. Fignon and Bugno were the big Gatorade riders, with Dirk Dewolf a secondary attraction. They were all on vacation though so they didn't take it seriously.

Lemond and Kvasvoll (sp?) seemed like they were enjoying themselves. Thierry Claverolat was there, same as Duclos Lasalle.

Roy Knickman was on Coors Light, they had a pretty fit team. I watched him win at the first race I ever watched, the '83 Crit Nationals, so I was rooting for him. He finished 8? minutes down after pulling for his team. Oravetz was there, the marathon runner turned pro cyclist.. I forget his name. Mike something. Engleman. I think Stephen Swart was on there? Dave Mann. Alexi Grewal (who was using prototype SPD-R pedals that we took pictures of and who also had some insane seat tube angle, like 78 degrees). He might have gotten 3rd or 4th overall.

Armstrong I think raced for the US National team with… Hincapie? I forget if that was the year Hincapie attacked when everyone stopped to pee. He got caught at the base of the last climb, about 2 miles from the finish. Skittles team. Hincapie used the Concor sprinter saddle with a ski-jump upturned back that you could push against. Bobby… 3rd at 98 Tour.. he was there, he got 3rd overall so Grewal got 4th or 5th. God I can't remember any names. Former Cofidis and Telekom rider.. jeepers this is terrible.

We watched a mid-stage sprint (totally anti-climactic) then headed into Hershey? for the finish. We helped two Seur riders find the hotel after the race - they were lost, didn't speak English, and one of my teammates could understand enough to figure out what to look for. That's how we found the race motel. Then we went to T-town and did some track riding and watched some foreign guy kill it doing 18 second flying laps.
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Old 03-12-14, 09:54 PM   #44
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While CDR and others are in this revived tubular thread...
Opinions about pre stretching Vittoria tubies? Yes/no? If I were to pre stretch, would it work on a clincher rim?
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Old 03-13-14, 05:22 AM   #45
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Julich. Bobby Julich. Holy smokes.

I think a clincher rim lets the tubular tire sink so low that it doesn't stretch as much, that's my recollection.

Pre-stretching - I don't bother now. I find a really stretched tire to be even more difficult to mount properly than a non-stretched tire because a really stretched tire is almost too long around for the rim. It's like putting a 29" tube into a 26" tire. With a tighter tire the force of stretching it on distributes the tire all around the rim, and since I've had a lot of practice I can do it without making too big of a mess.

I will put a tire on a rim (tubular - believe it or not I don't have as many clincher rims laying around) to make sure the tube holds air. Chances are almost zero that the tube is bad but if I have the time I'll check it. Sometimes it's the valve and on an aero rim it's not easy to fix a loose/bad valve without taking the tire off. You can check air tightness on a clincher rim.
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Old 03-13-14, 07:34 PM   #46
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The Vittoria Corsa Evo CX is no longer made. It's the Corsa CX (black sidewall, latex tube), Corsa SC (gum sidewall, latex tube) and the Corsa Elite (black sidewall, butyl tube). There are others, but those are the main ones.

Anyone b*tching about costs should not run tubulars, period.

I stretch on used tubular rims.
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Old 03-13-14, 09:06 PM   #47
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While CDR and others are in this revived tubular thread...
Opinions about pre stretching Vittoria tubies? Yes/no? If I were to pre stretch, would it work on a clincher rim?
pre-stretching is generally a good idea, but you don't need to be extreme. a clincher rim works but not as well as a tubular rim.

install on a rim, inflate to 110-120psi, and leave it for 12h to a week. the more the better, but even 12-24h helps.

i do NOT advocate the old-school 'step on the tire and pull up with your hands' method. it can damage the base tape.

i've installed victtorias fresh out of the box, stretched for a few hours, and stretched for a month. they all install fine but the stretched ones are a tad easier when it comes to centering them and flipping that last bit over the rim.
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Old 03-13-14, 09:09 PM   #48
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I will put a tire on a rim (tubular - believe it or not I don't have as many clincher rims laying around) to make sure the tube holds air. Chances are almost zero that the tube is bad but if I have the time I'll check it. Sometimes it's the valve and on an aero rim it's not easy to fix a loose/bad valve without taking the tire off. You can check air tightness on a clincher rim.
this is a helpful part of "pre-stretching". if you do it with any required valve extenders and measure pressure before and 12 or 24h later, you can figure out if there is a slow leak before installing it.

fast leaks are easier to spot, but a slow leak can be tougher to figure out where it's coming from (it may be just a loose valve/extender that's hard to fix on a deep rim) once installed.

may be overkill, but it only takes one wasted tire...
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Old 03-13-14, 09:46 PM   #49
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The Vittoria Corsa Evo CX is no longer made. It's the Corsa CX (black sidewall, latex tube), Corsa SC (gum sidewall, latex tube) and the Corsa Elite (black sidewall, butyl tube). There are others, but those are the main ones.

Anyone b*tching about costs should not run tubulars, period.

I stretch on used tubular rims.
i don't kvetch about the cost; i kvetch about the fact that i got only 600 miles on my last rear Evo CX. Good thing is that the front is still going well and the tread has not yet worn smooth.

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Old 03-13-14, 11:02 PM   #50
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Wow, thats expensive for the miles. Why do you like it so much better over the other brands?
you're looking for a high end product designed for raw performance. expect to pay top dollar.
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