shovelhd

No worries.

rkwaki

Linebacker here...

Like Shovel said there are a variety of successful crit riders:
1. Linebacker Beasts - like me - you simply do not want to drag race me so don't
2. The little guys with big, powerful jumps and great acceleration - ala shovel, stein, etc. - their plan is to catch the water buffaloes like myself sleeping
3. The tactical guys - ala CDR who read a race well and place themselves in the right spot at the right time.
4. The jit bags - the ones who make life hell for everyone as they are so sketchy that they shouldn't be racing

I would question what you deem successful? Getting onto a UCI team? Then yes dedicating your life to road racing will help, but not in Florida - Colorado, Cali maybe.
But a team is looking for someone who is successful and shows form in all disciplines - they can then hone/coach you to a specific event.
What I didn't read was some info about yourself. Type of build/rider/power etc.

AzTallRider

5. Guys who ride away from the field, and you only see them again when they lap you.

rkwaki

+1 forgot those guys - they are usually a combination of guys 1,2,3.

zigmeister

I think many have covered the basics here you need to identify and ask yourself:

1) What do you consider successful?
2) What are you goals?
3) What are you realistically good at?

Also, each race is uniquely different. Although you see the same people over and over in FL at most of the races. The guys/teams that show up each time will affect the dynamics of how it plays out. Some courses favor certain types of riders, weather conditions etc..

So figure out the above, then try to work within those identified realistic items. Plan and try to race around that.

Often Cat 4 in FL, there is a lot of "well, let's see how this unfolds the first mile or two on a particular course, then go with it and hope it suits your style and strengths. Otherwise, sometimes it ain't so bad just finishing with the bunch. Nobody wins every race they enter. If so, they are a phenom, or in the wrong category, or both.

kensuf

Tell that to Derek Bennett. That guy has been lighting up the p/1/2 field for the past month...

gsteinb

phenoms are nobodies.

brianappleby

To answer your question, yes I think so. It is possible to upgrade and win races and have fun and (almost ) never race crits. Notable exceptions are crits in stage races. But generally (IME) the tail end of a crit peloton in a stage race is a who's who of that particular race's top GC contenders.

You didn't mention TT's. I don't know about FL, but where I come from many of the best road races are part of Stage Races, and most stage races require a solid TT if you want to do well overall. You can always tailgun the crit, but you can't soft pedal a TT.

Everybody is talking about how crits are fun, crits are all about being savvy etc. But crits are also dangerous. There are more crashes per mile (per hour, per race, anything) in crits than any other type of racing. I'm all for going off the front and lapping the field or whatever, but when you get caught (which you will 90% of the time), then what? Just quit? Because now you're tired and not in the best decision making condition, and you're surrounded by 50 dudes who won't hesitate to put you in the gutter for a pack of gels or a 23rd place finish.

To the OP, stand by your convictions. If you have a gut feeling that crits are too dangerous, or not fun enough to be worth your time, then trust that. You can have plenty of fun and plenty of results by removing them from your racing entirely. None of these guys telling you to "just race everything" are going to visit you in the hospital when you snap a collarbone or need gravel scrubbed out of your shoulders.

gsteinb

The idea that there are more crashes crits than in road races is totally erroneous. There aren't really any facts to back that up, and many many people here experience the exact opposite. Just based on the fact that you see the same obstacles lap after lap it's likely far safer than most road races where you may only find a particular pothole or road undulation once.

brianappleby

I admit that I have only anecdotal evidence, same as you, but my personal experience and the experiences of those on my team would imply that the most dangerous races are crits, and road races with dirt sections.

With familiarity comes complacency and carelessness. There's a crit near my house every year, and every year someone in more than one race goes down in the final corner on the last lap, because they don't realize that they've been taking it at 25 the whole race, and now they're taking it at 30.

kensuf

I've got to say I don't ever remember seeing 30+ people carted away in an ambulance from crashing in a crit.



^^ this is from a road race here in the duh back in '09.

Racer Ex 

I've got more of a safeties build.

jfmckenna

I can't sprint for jack but I've won crits simply by going off the front and getting away. You have to get a feel for when to go. If it's a technical crit then getr right on the front and drill the last couple of laps so that you can take all the corners hard and on your specific line. If it's a wide open crit then wait till you notice the field slow down and all the big meatball linebackers staring around at each other. Let them think you are just some weak dork that's gonna come back after a lap or two and just keep going till the field has resigned to racing for second.

If any race, crit or road race comes down to a sprint and I am all alone I just drop off the back and watch the race go, no sense in me even trying. That doesn't mean I/you can't win a crit or a road race though.

shovelhd

The OP didn't mention safety concerns at all. He thinks he doesn't have the short term power to compete in crits, so he wants to do road races where he can.

Short term power, like all power, has to be developed. Once you've been through a base and build cycle, the best training is racing, preferably where you're racing for a beer and not cash. Training crits are for beating yourself to a pulp and discovering what you need to work on.

zigmeister

Speaking from experience, I think in FL, there has been a crash in pretty much every RR, Crit and Circuit race in Cat 4 that I've been in. Fortunately, I've not been part of any of those. Knock on wood. The reason I've avoided this is due to my amazing bike handling skills, and the fact I'm usually off the back within 2 miles. Easy to stay out of trouble when you are by yourself

shovelhd

You're doomed.

mollusk

All bike racing is dangerous. Training for bike racing is also dangerous. Even riding on the MUP is dangerous.

In my personal experience I'd say that crits might have a slightly higher probability of crashing versus a road race, but the road race crashes tend to be more severe on average.

YMMV

JAX_11

Safety isn't a concern. I've been In one crash this year and it was in a road race where a teammate came over on top of me. I got up and spent the better part of 6 miles solo TTing and I finally caught the peloton. I feel overmatched in Crits. Everyone is so aggressive in Crits. Seems Like everyone Has so much more short term power than I. These same individuals I beat in most every road race. As to being sucessful in Crits my Idea of Sucessful is being in contention for that podium spots in at least some of the Crits. Every road race I feel Like I am in contention and most of the time I am. Crits I feel Like a top 10 is a win for me in crits. I have been a cat 4 for 4 1/2 months and am able to upgrade to 3 pretty soon due to my Road racing results. I however don't want to upgrade to Cat 3 till I can master strategy, placement and overall strength to compete in Crits. Once I do that then I will feel ready for Cat 3. My question of road racing only and not crits is if its pausable to upgrade and focus on road races only in cat3 and 30+ and be sucessful to keep moving up as far as I can go. I have no ideas of ever being on a UCI team or developmental Team. My hopes for the future is to have fun and get out in those 2-4 hour road races and keep improving my skills in the road races. If I could ever develop more feel and power and smarts for crit racing I'm sure I might enjoy it. In crits I hardly ever ride in the back I stay in the front 3rd but never seem to come close to closing the deal in the last 4 laps. Thanx for all the imput I hope that I can find myself liking crits more in the future.

rkwaki

You want to do well in crits? Train like a crit rider. You want to train like a crit rider? Listen to ole rkwaki as he is too stupid to road race...
I believe that crit training is very focused and more 'painful' as intervals suck, gym work sucks, finding that aggressive streak can be difficult, getting the balls to stuff yourself through a 45 cm opening when you have 42 cm bars at 30+ miles an hour can be very difficult as sometimes what you think you want and what you really want have a big disconnect between them.

gsteinb

pffft just be in front of the hole

rkwaki

Too much to say in response to that comment...

save10

agreed.

kindablue

Track riding grows balls pretty fast...

carpediemracing 

I don't train for crits. I don't know what I train for - if I raced like I trained, I'd be an average MUP rider. On almost all my training rides my HR is about 130-140 avg, I might hit 160 if I'm going up a hill, 165 in a group, and I average 15-17 mph usually (on pretty much dead flat roads). My power is typically 140w avg. On the trainer some rides are 90-110 bpm, 120-140w, for an hour. I don't do intervals, I don't do 2x20s or whatever people talk about here. If anything I sprint after trucks or buses or down steep hills. The rest of it is JRA.

When you say that you spend a lot of time in the front 1/3 of the field but have nothing left for the last 4 laps, it indicates to me that you're working way too hard in the race.

Crits are way easier than road races. You see the course over and over again. You max out at about 45 mph (usually). 60 seconds is a huge gap.

Road races are hard. You have to be fit. It's like running - if you can't run a 5:00 mile, you can't win, and if you can't climb at whatever w/kg, you can't stay in the group. End of story. There is no tactics, it's like running.

Having said that, you can do similar things in crits, it's just a matter of choosing your efforts based on your strength. After the Cancellara electric bike thing I thought about how I would race if I had 200 more watts of FTP (like say a 200w electric motor). I would be a totally different rider. My sprint wouldn't improve that much (it's not super impressive to begin with - you should see the paltry jump I made in the last race I did) but my steady state power would have doubled. This means being able to ride off the front, go for breaks, etc. It would totally change the way I raced, totally and completely.

There's a guy that I think reads here, sometimes posts. He was at Bethel, he asked me how to win (Cat 3, I hope he's not a 4 still). He is super strong but spent way too much time in the wind, doing all sorts of stuff that if it was me I'd be off the back a lap later. So he's putting down crazy watts making failed moves and wondering why he can't sprint well. I gave him some tips. He got 3rd, in a break that he formed and helped develop. i watched him when he first went, realized he went at the perfect time (everyone was totally gassed), and he was doing exactly what I told him he should do. He killed us in the field, and we had some of the fastest laps ever while chasing him and his breakmates down. I suspect he worked too hard in the break so he didn't win, but so be it, he made it happen.

Jancouver

Road races in Florida? Isnt that like a long crit without turns and hills? I wish we had those in SoCal because here if you suck at crits and cant climb you dont have that many choices ... so basically I'm screwed