Capacity08

Hello all.

Long time lurker, and broke college student here. I've been fascinated by the world of cycling for more than 3 years now. I watch every race I can get on my crummy cable TV and regularly fantasize what it'd be like to spend a day in PhilGil's shoes. I spend my time wishing there were cobbled roads in Wisconsin, and dreaming about riding in big expensive team buses. If you haven't already figured, my head is in the clouds with this cycling thing. I want to race, and I want to win (don't we all?). But I also need to work, and pay for the ever rising costs of the tuition payments every semester.

A bit of background, if you don't have anything better to do but read this; My name's Mitch, I'm 19, 5'8" and 148 lbs. I'm a track athlete at the University of Wisconsin Stout. I run the quarter and half mile (400, and 800), sometimes even the mile. I run a mile in just over 4:30, can run a half mile in under 2 minutes, and a quarter mile in less than 52 seconds. However, you all are cyclists, so these statistics more than likely mean nothing to the tribe who speaks in terms of 40km Time Trial results, and Lactate Thresholds. I spend my summers riding, with my cycling season culminating at the end of my summer vacation at the Race the Lake, a 90 mile race around Lake Winnebago, just over 4 hours worth of fast fun, but mildly leisure riding.

Now your probably wondering why I'm posting here. Well, as the title states; I want to race. In my free time here at school, between classes and track practice (which is an extensive season, spanning from September to mid May) I have compiled a training program. With help from Velo magazine, resources from this site, and assorted other resources (my track lifting program included). It's pretty basic and most veterans of this forum would probably scoff my ambition and relegate me to Cat5 pack fill, but I want to make it better. It's based off of my heart rate, and an RPE scale. I don't own a Quark, a Powertap, or an SRM. I can't afford it.

Training Calendar:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/91477259/C...ining-Calendar

Weight Training Program:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/91477261/Weight-Training1

I have a bunch of races scheduled for June, July and August. Most are criteriums, or criterium series including the Tour of America's Dairyland, and ICC superweek. I am new to criterium racing, but I've read page upon page of articles on what and what not to do. I guess the only thing I have in question is what to expect. I know that question won't truly be answered until I get out there and start competing, but what do you guys think?

Some other notes to add, I ride a 2009 Specialized Allez.It's no Venge, or Tarmac, but it fits well in my budget. I have a set of Neuvation wheels, Shimano clipless pedals and a pair of Specialized Road shoes. Also, I work full time (3 to 11), so I have plenty of time to ride during the day.

So, the business end of this thread, and those of you thinking tl;dr

How pathetic is the training program I've devised, and how can I make it better?
What should I expect going into my first serious race season?
When can I plan a Time Trial against Scott Zwizanski?
What are some crucial pieces of advice you'd give to somebody who wants to be a successful as you are?

Looking at myself in terms of pros and cons, I see this. I think I'll be able to handle interval workouts fine, because of my track background. I have strong legs, again, back to the track program. I'm motivated. My heart (I believe) is strong. I can handle hills (while driving through the rolling Wisconsin hillside often fantasize about climbing them, ha). I have some of the most beautiful and varied training terrain at my disposal, and after a few responses to this post, I should have a solid training program to work with. I'm also extremely competitive, and love suffering. I am also not married. I'm not sure if this is really a pro, but I suppose it could be if you think about it.

The cons? I'm new, lack experience, and probably lack tactical savvy. I don't have an expensive carbon fiber bicycle. I don't have access to Coach Carmichael. I'm mostly alone.

Thanks for reading this, and thanks for all the imput (hopefully). I'll keep this thread updated as the season progresses, and let you guys know how I do at some of my races!

Later,
Capacity08

dietzpa

Sorry no one has chimed in yet. I don't know what you're looking for as far as input, but you're plenty fit from the sound of it. No reason to worry about a training program yet. Have fun and don't worry about upgrading until you have experience. Don't be a dick, don't be uber aggressive, and have fun. Isn't having fun why we race? Certainly it's not for the $$.

Biscayne05

bleh, a lot of Freds use them for online reputation.

With those numbers @ the track all you need is a good coach and if you can't afford one then join the local cycling club and learn from the vets. You clearly got a good BASE( with track )to begin with and younger athletic guys like you can easily adapt to anything.

mattm

Fun, excitement, pain.

Start with group rides, if you surive then sign up, line up, and see how it goes. You don't need a carbon bike, any bike and a helmet is all you need.

Good luck!

bostongarden

Matt's group ride idea is a great one. Your equipment sounds fine enough to me; it won't hold you back.

Cycling muscles and efforts don't necessarily align 1 to 1 with those for running. I was a track athlete in high school and college; my conditioning helped me on the bike, but, it wasn't enough. And, tactics are so key in cycling. Drafting, patience, jumping, distinguishing good wheels from bad, etc. are key.

Get into those group rides, and when you are comfortable with that, for your safety and that of others, pin on a number and try it out.

bostongarden

Oh Bisquit, you really don't want to toss out the word Fred with power measurement systems here. They are not Fredly at all.

From a value and utilization perspective, I don't see sufficient value in getting a coach so early on, particularly when one is extremely new to cycling and the budget for living in general is so tight.

Zei

I'm almost 20, 5"8', 145 lbs, have tons of panache for cycling, and plan to start racing this summer as well, so we're in similar boats. However, I've never done track, and my HS jr/sr best mile times were both 5:30. Haven't done a timed run since, but I probably wouldn't do much better than that now.

Looking at your training plans, they're neat, organized, and a lot of time has obviously gone into making them. I wish you had included something about how your riding performance is right now, because I have no idea how well track experience translates into cycling ability.
I'm sure your running experience will put you miles ahead of someone starting from scratch.

My only training program has been "ride more, ride harder, ride faster." I'd say don't worry about a training program, but you seem like someone that likes having the structure (why else would you spend the time to make one), so if it helps, go for it. Don't set it in stone, it'll probably have to adjust along the way.

Because I haven't had a racing season yet and don't want to be critical (or proven incorrect), I'll only critique your plans with saying that you should be riding more distance, and probably riding at a higher HR %. (I reach 50% max heart rate just getting my bike out the door)

This is really the best advice you can get. Anything else is secondary.



Since we're similar in age and physique I'll add what I've done so far this year, for perspective. (And because I don't want to start a "I'm 19, 5"8' 14X lbs, and want to race" thread of my own )
This year's first ride was only Feb 22 (should have started earlier... regret not doing so) and I was months off the bike (didn't do squat for exercise since before November). I started my season slowly, only a couple rides a week at first, only doing 20-25mi at a time. I unfortunately had 2 weeks off the bike in March (midterms before spring break w/o bike).
Only in the last 5 weeks did I really kick it up, and my training time and mileage is only going to keep on increasing. By the end of May I want to be doing 200-300 miles every week. (in the last 4 weeks it's been 150-230) All my riding so far this year has been solo; getting back in group rides this weekend.
Here are some of my numbers to look at, since I can tell you're a numbers kind of guy.


This is the best fitness I've ever had, and I expect to do well in the cat 5s. Since I know that plenty of riders start racing cat 5 with a lot less experience (so don't fear it), I'm cautiously hoping for a podium finish this summer. I could have started racing last summer, but I lacked group experience and I feared that I'd never hear the end of it if it from my parents if I couldn't keep up in a race; they still see me as a hobbyist and not as an athlete of any sort.

(Sorry for derailing a bit there)

Notice that in this huge post I haven't said anything about your bike yet, that's because you shouldn't worry about it. You'll be going faster after 4 weeks of training than after spending 4000 more on your bike.

If you have any questions about anything, feel free to send me a message. I live in the Chicago south suburbs, so there's even the chance that we'll see each other at the same race eventually.

At the present time, your main concern should be finding a weekly group ride, and add that to your program.

dnuzzomueller

this is coming from another reasonably, young, inexperienced racer. Difference is that I have alot more base (been commuting on bike for pretty much all of my life, before I could walk my father rode with me in a child carrier, and it went from there). Trust me when I say that the trick is to not overthink it, especially in the Cat 5 field.

from what I have seen, the ability to do well in the races right now stems from someones (Cat 5s of course, trust me when I say that the more experienced racers / races are much different) drive to win. That is what has let me actually win and place pretty high in some of my races, just the willpower to feel enough pain to chase a wheel right after getting my attacks pulled back, or not being afraid to venture into the pain zone of a really long TT effort to hold people off.

As has been said before, do some FAST group rides (i finally found one after a year that will drop me if im not careful) and just enter some races. Experience really is the best teacher.

jwible

You forgot humiliation, self loathing, and the suitcase of courage.

OP, if you want to race then race. I've seen guys in jeans on single speeds in Cat 5 races. Honestly we thought it funny for the first few laps we were watching as they were not in the main group, but the guys kept pushing it. They didn't give up and we started cheering like hell for them to finish.

Don't over think things. Get comfortable riding in a pack. Don't move around like a squirrel on the hunt for nuts. If you can hang with people you know who race on group rides then just do it. The only way to know if you are training to the best of your abilities is to go out and see how you stack up in a race. That will let you know real quick what you need to work on.

I haven't looked at your training plan yet, but if you plan on racing crits, make sure to include lots of very hard short intervals with limited recovery time. And by recovery I don't mean coast I mean back to your pre interval effort. Something like 15 second near sprints every 1 minute and 45 seconds for 30 minutes would be a good start. That can help simulate the intensity of a race. And if you coast to recover, consider that being dropped from the race.

bostongarden

DNM, which group ride is fast?

Capacity08

Thanks for the responses everybody!

Well the thing is, part of the reason I'm fascinated by cycling is the power aspect. It's enthralling to see such an applied use of scientific knowledge. But that's one of the problems, it is scientific equipment, so its not cheap. I think for the time being training with my Polar FT7 will suffice, however. I know a lot about my heart from previous riding experience, and track as well so if should be a reasonably effective tool. Maybe if I win a few races I'll start putting nickels in a jar for an SRM.

That's another thing I've learned; the cycling community is an extremely masochistic society. Haha, but regarding the group rides; I've been meaning to stick with some of the group rides by me, but the problem is most of them ride either really early, or after a 9 to 5 shift, so I'm either still sleeping, or at the machine shop working, or I gotta go out of my way just to ride with them. Maybe I'll just stick to group rides on the weekends when I have a modicum of spare time! Sign up, line up and see how it goes; kind of what I was thinking when I put the races on the calendar, so my fingers are crossed.

I figured the muscle groups used in track vs. cycling weren't similar, but many of the strengthening lifts I do on a monday/wednesday/friday basis work the muscle groups needed for cycling. Like you said, I'll hopefully have a solid base to work with, and I have in fact taken that into consideration with my training program. I figured that I should be in some kind of shape by the end of the track season, so there'd be no need for an extensive 8 week base building program. Rather 3 weeks would suffice.

Thankfully, I have some previous group riding experience. I can hold a line, I don't half-wheel, and I can keep a tight draft. There was even some fast cornering involved. However, other tactics like recognizing a winning break, or when to attack I have none of. I figure if I just sit in the pack for my first criterium race and watch how it all unfolds I'll have a better understanding and be able to race the next one more seriously.

Thanks for the advice. I do have some significant interval workouts planned. After about the 3rd week of base building, I'll start into the interval work, and I think I typically have two interval days a week: Tuesday and Thursday, with Wednesday being a day off the bike for a recovery day. I'll keep your interval in mind, but I also plan on incorporating some of the interval workouts on the site here into my weekly schedule. They sound absolutely horrible, and I can't wait to start doing them.

Also, Zei: Glad to hear from somebody in the same boat. You have had the advantage of being able to ride, I however have not been riding seriously at all. I've been busy with track, and it doesn't help my good bike is 250 miles away, safe and sound and free from the drunken bike thieves ever present on a college campus. My folks almost kicked me out of the house when I bought my bike....if only they understood what other people pay!

But yeah, when racing starts, odds are we'll be racing in at least one or two races together. I'm in Fond du Lac Wisconsin, which is a good 2 hours from Chicago, but really not all that far, considering most of the races I'll be doing are by the Milwaukee area, about half way between us.

Thanks for all the responses everybody!

Later,
Capacity08

Creakyknees

Does UW Stout have a cycling club or team? Find the local group. Join. Learn.

MDcatV

OP, i only skimmed your post creaky gives good advice. your track times (52" 400, sub 2' 800, and 4:30 mile) are impressive and suggest a big engine. it isnt 1/1 but it'll transfer eventually. most of the former runners i know in cycling struggle tactically, in running they're used to running everyone off their heels and if they've got a big motor, they progress through categories riding people off their wheels until they hit their genetic potential category (where they're no longer stronger than everyone else) and then they have to learn how to race. joining a team now that focuses on racer development will help you with this.

HMF

Don't underestimate the mental aspect of the sport. Stay positive, stay confident, and keep an open mind.

SalsaPodio

When I ran track I did a :54 400 and a 1:58 800. I ended up not being so bad at this cycling thing. Not too good, but I can hold my own.

Just ride a lot, rest enough, go on group rides and win races.

Capacity08

They do, its just a basic club with riders of multiple disciplines but I don't have time to ride with them with track practice every day and track meets on the weekends. I also don't have my bicycle up here with me. Next semester I will be bringing my bike up to school so I can sneak some rides in with them

This statement stands out the most to me, because it really is true. I'll look into joining a team in the future, but I'm not familiar with any teams by me, and don't really know if they're recruiting at all, especially somebody who has nearly no racing experience to date. Hopefully this cycling season changes that. Do any of you guys happen to know of any teams in the Wisconsin area that would take me under their wing?

Thanks, I'll see what the season brings, then start making some judgement, ha.

Hopefully I'll see a 1:58 this weekend! Equally impressive times, hopefully like you said it translates into some success on the road!

Thanks guys,
Capacity08

dnuzzomueller

Tuesday Night Worlds out in Newton, Green Line Velo rides it alot. It is hosted by Boston Road Club.

Now laugh at me and tell me I am a wuss and you eat them for breakfast

roadCruiser76

I would highly recommend the following book to help you devise a training program. This will tell you all you need to know and more. Also, if you don't already have a heart rate monitor, you should get one. They are pretty cheap. The book recommends doing workouts based on heart rate, so you will need one. You should also try to get a decent cycling computer, such as a Garmin 500, so that way you can monitor your progress. Those are a little expensive but well worth saving up for. Here's the book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Cyclists-T.../dp/1931382212

EventServices

This.

You're spending too much time comparing numbers here. Racing is about racing.

At this stage in your pre-racing career, you need to just go out and ride with others. And read a book.

bostongarden

I won't laugh at all...I like to know about various rides in the area...I do that ride occasionally -- alternatively at Wompatuck or doing trainer intervals on Tuesdays -- lots of strong riders show up often for that one and it is a great workout, no doubt!

Edit: Plenty of good riders on GLV.

carpediemracing 

Sam R of GLV rides and races like he's been doing it for 30 years but I think he's maybe on his 4th year now? Phenomenal rider, super savvy. Cat 5 to 2 in his first year, and he got 4th in his first P12 race. P12, not P123. Huge difference.

carpediemracing 

A 4:3x mile is fast. Don't worry as much about training as tactics and skills. Work on explosive power because you obviously have a good motor. Think about launching moves before the sprint once you're a Cat 4 or 3, meaning doing a 1 or 2 or 3 lap flyer, using some physiological obstacle (hairpin, hill, etc) to launch your move. In the 5s you'll probably be able to win whatever way you want, solo, sprint, etc.

All I can say is that as a 3 I'd expect to see you in races for only a short time, just like Sam R (who I mentioned above). He was a Cat 5 in March of 2010. He won EVERY Cat 3 race I entered in the second half of summer. By the time I stopped for the season (I had gotten my Cat 2 upgrade) he had gotten his Cat 2 upgrade and got a very close 4th (he was pipped for 3rd) at a big season ending crit in NE.

The thing about Sam is that he is an incredibly good bike rider. Not physiologically speaking - he jokes about how weak he is - but in a technical sense. He is extremely, extremely comfortable in the field, super smooth, solid, stable, predictable, safe, every compliment you can give a racer about skills you can apply to him.

He is exactly what a bike racer should be, and he was like that in his first full year of racing. I don't know how he did it but he did it. He's an example for all new bike racers.

By mid-summer, after a few races with him, I realized something that really surprised me - he is a better bike racer than I am when I compare my tactical skills (my only strength). He kills me in the sprint, kills me in fitness, and he's as smart a bike racer as smart can be.

His only "weakness", if you will, is that he's strong enough to get mixed up with strong riders that have no clue (I avoid that by not really mixing it up with the strong-but-no-clue guys at all). He's been taken out a few times by ridiculously stupid riding by very strong and very stupid racers. For example he was in a small break and the guy pulling through swerved through him and took him out. Total nonsense.

carpediemracing 

(double post)

shovelhd

A few things.
It's a lot harder than you can imagine.
Your track base will be a good base for cycling, which could be a good predictor of success in Cat5, but not further.
Do NOT be in a rush to upgrade. Cat5 is for learning about yourself and how you can win in the upper categories. Use it.
You have a lot on your plate. You are going to have to prioritize, which may mean taking your fancy plans and throwing them out the window. That's OK. You have to be flexible.
You absolutely must gain fast group riding skills as soon as possible. Going into your first race without having done at least a few fast group rides is a recipe for disaster.
Above all, bike racing is about commitment at many levels. Commitment to train, to driving for hours to get to races, to evaluating your performance objectively. In the race itself, it's about knowing what you are capable of, and then committing yourself to do it. To get in a break, to work in the break, to attacking the field, to patience and reason when your heart rate is through the roof and there's more adrenaline in your bloodstream than plasma.
Commit to learn. Commit to race. Commit to humility. Commit to agony. Success will follow.

Capacity08

I'll look into snagging the books you guys have mentioned and spend some quality time with them over the summer. Another common theme seems to be getting out and riding with others a great deal, which I will look into as well, even it is only on the weekends. Like is said, the problem with my local shop rides/group rides is they usually get together when I'm at work. Weekends should be fair game though.

Sounds like an extremely impressive rider. I however, don't really think I should be compared to somebody of that stature. I mean anything can happen, but my goal right now isn't to fly up through the ranks and be bumping elbows with semi-pro cat 1s and 2s. Maybe someday, but like a lot of the people have stated on here already, I have a lot to learn, physically and tactically speaking and the only real way to do that is to race more, so that's what I'm going to do.

I never imagined it to be easy, and if its anything like running the half mile in under 2 minutes, I'm sure it'll hurt like all hell. Thanks for the bit on staying committed, it's inspiring to read those last few sentences. I'm getting all jacked up just running those words through my head. I'm really looking forward to starting my race season, and the information you guys have provided me will be invaluable! My training regimen starts on May 21st. That's when I'm officially back from school and can seriously commit time to the bike. Then, it's time for some group-rides, eventually culminating into my first race June 16th; the Nature Valley Criterium in Menomonie.

Another question though, is it a big deal if I'm not on a team for these races? Do Cat5 riders that go at it solo meet with less success than those with teammates? Any input you guys have on this would be appreciated as well...like what would you do if you were in my shoes?

Thanks again,
Capacity08