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  1. #1
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Wicked downtown crit POV video (Explosive finish)

    Consider this a race report. Commentary (learned from the great Sprinterdelacasa/Carpediemracing/Aki) is sprinkled throughout. It let's you know what I was thinking, at least. There are some real surprises so watch it BEFORE reading the comment.



    After watching, let me know what you think.

  2. #2
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Well, it's pretty much what I expected from the hints, though the method could have been anything.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  3. #3
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Sucks about the tire and crash. Nice editing of the video.

    Generally, sound racing in the 4s, especially if you still had legs in the last 5. Breaks rarely seem to get away in the 4s, so those catches are expected. It's tough to tell with the camera focal length, but it looks like you should be drafting closer.

  4. #4
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Glad you're ok (and the bike, too.)

    What I see:

    1. Stay off the binders in corners. Gaps opened in front of you too often as you scrubbed too much speed setting up.

    2. If a rider lets a gap open in front of him you need to decide sooner to jump around and close it. Don't sit on wheels that make you work.

    3. You followed an attack but didn't get on it soon enough and you were left in the wind. If you're going to jump on a wheel then jump on it.

    Learn from it and apply it in the next race.
    BLOG of BOB: Old Guy Racer
    BDop Cycling Company Ltd.: bdopcycling.com, facebook

  5. #5
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    Glad you came out of it relatively fine.

    I am going to make an assumption that the tire was a clincher? Any sign/idea of what caused the failure?

    I think you're working on getting closer so I'll shut up on that. The cornering - I wasn't on the bike but it looked like Nate could have made it, and if not on the road, definitely on the sidewalk. When you're racing in a downtown circuit you should keep an eye out for what's at the turn out point of each turn. You never know when you'll need to bail due to a crash or whatever. I've used sidewalks to avoid crashes but I also used one knowing I could enter the (final) corner way too hot and finish the corner on the very wide sidewalk. It's a much more subdued version of the incredible pass that Zanardi made at Laguna Sega (vid here).

  6. #6
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    What kind of wheel / tire / tube?

  7. #7
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    CDR, here's video of a very similar move -- but on GP bikes Casey Stoner vs. Valentino Rossi 2008 LaGoooona Seca

  8. #8
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    Jeepers that's some wild shyte.

  9. #9
    Village Idiot
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    Jeepers that's some wild shyte.
    Seriously!

    They're passing within a few cm of each other at time and adjusting their bodies so they don't touch. Wowie zowie.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
    -Albert Camus

    Hammer Nutrition 15% discount!!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    I am going to make an assumption that the tire was a clincher? Any sign/idea of what caused the failure?

    I wasn't on the bike but it looked like Nate could have made it, and if not on the road, definitely on the sidewalk.
    It was a clincher, a brand new tire. The bead actually tore away from the sidewall. It was only a week old with less than 150 miles on it. I took it back to the shop to complain, because a high quality race tire should not fail under 85 degree racing temps. The manufacturer agreed to completely replace them, my helmet, and replace the scuffed shifters under the agreement that I would not slam them on the boards or video. I think I'll take the deal. They are an otherwise well-respected manufacturer.

    Cornering and sphere is getting better. Not all of the 45 minutes of video I selected shows that. There are moments when I let my speed drop in the corners or I am not as tight as I should be. Those moments seem to make the videos more often. I leave out most of the innocuous laps where I am just sitting in. But, yes. All the comments about sphere are accurate and I am working to maintain the confidence really hang in.

    All of the encouragement is appreciated!

  11. #11
    Senior Member The Domestique's Avatar
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    @Bob Agreed. I yell at myself in the race about these same things. I wrestled with whether or not to really go with him. I drove 4 hours to the race so I could help a friend and lead him out. So, when ICO jumped, I went and then second guessed myself. I should have just committed to the break and it stayed away, great.

    You're comments are really appreciated and taken to heart.

  12. #12
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    Wow, 4 hours drive. Okay, I just realized you're in Idaho, so for you that's perhaps normal? At that point every move becomes significant - it's the sweat equity that you've put into the race before you even clipped in. It makes it harder to make snap decisions because you really don't want to make a mistake. This is what makes training races fun and real races a bit less fun.

    When you mentioned the bead separated the first though I had was "brake pad hit the sidewall". If the manufacturer is replacing everything then that to me indicates that the sidewall really did fail.

    I ask because one of the reasons I used to use tubulars is that they are much easier to control in case of a sudden flat. I should publish a short clip of my teammate on a tubular - he flats his front mid turn in a crit, slides the front wheel a bit, but recovers, and it was just as he was bridging/attacking a break (I forget the race scenario but he was in a 3 rider group just ahead of us). With the wider rims (like the HED Stingers) this argument is less valid because the rim will hit the ground pretty quickly, but a tubular tire on a regular width rim ("narrow") is reasonable to control even when flat. In general though a tubular flat is not necessarily something that will take you out right away in a turn, not like a clincher.

    (There are those that argue that sudden clincher flats can be ridden out, even in the middle of a hard turn. I argue that this is extremely difficult, and I'd challenge anyone to recover from the blowout in the video. I know I'd be on the ground before I knew it.)

    On one training ride a long time ago I flatted a front, rode a few min thinking I'd get to a shop and borrow a front wheel, saw two guys go flying across a T intersection I was approaching (and I needed to go the same way), chased them down (30-35 mph on slight rolling downhill with a few rises), sat on their rotating paceline for a minute or two (letting them know I was there - they were doing upper 20s, low 30s at that point, and the road had no more rises), then, when one asked me to help pull, I pointed out I had a flat front tire and didn't want to endanger them. After they both eased and wowed at my front tire they pulled the rest of the way to a main road where I thanked them and left to head towards the shop.

    As it happened the shop was closed so I rode another 7 miles home on the flat (realistically it was about 10 miles on the flat). When I train on tubulars I don't carry a spare - my plan is to ride the flat home if I flat, because I can and because I understand the limits of a well glued flat tire but I don't know how well an inflated but not-glued tire (i.e. a spare) will do. In order to keep my truck chasing urges at bay I decided that I would just ride the flat home.

  13. #13
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've gotten flats with both clinchers and tubulars. Saved from crashing more times with tubulars than clinchers. One time even with a front flat in the middle of a corner! Never been able to do that that a clincher. Not to mention the 1/4-1/2 lb savings per wheels is well worth it for me.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    As it happened the shop was closed so I rode another 7 miles home on the flat (realistically it was about 10 miles on the flat). When I train on tubulars I don't carry a spare - my plan is to ride the flat home if I flat, because I can and because I understand the limits of a well glued flat tire but I don't know how well an inflated but not-glued tire (i.e. a spare) will do. In order to keep my truck chasing urges at bay I decided that I would just ride the flat home.
    I definately carry spare tubulars. You don't really need glue when riding in a straight line. Just take the corners slowly. Beats riding with a flat for me. I've done it, but i had shallow rims and could feel the valve stem every rotation. Maybe other tire/rim combinations are more rideable.... not something I've given much thought to.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ouabacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    It's a much more subdued version of the incredible pass that Zanardi made at Laguna Sega (vid here).
    Love the reference. "The Pass". Wonder if Herta still has nightmares about that.

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