Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-04-12, 08:33 PM   #1
JC 911
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JC 911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Bikes: 2010 Felt F1 SL, 2007 Trek Madone, 2007 Klein Q Elite XV, 2006 Lemond Tete de Course, 20099 Salsa Chili Con Cross Team Clif,
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Circuit Racing Question

So I did my first circuit race today - 6 laps at 6 miles per lap in the 4/5. Unbeknown to me and a few other newbies to circuit racing, there was not a neutral start like there is in road races. Fought like hell to get back into the peloton but couldn't quite get there and ended up latching onto a group for 4 laps until I attacked and broke away with someone else and we rolled in together a couple of minutes behind the peloton.

Question I have is other than the not having a neutral start, are there any other differences between a circuit race and road race?

Plan to do another one next weekend and staying with the pack from the on-set but want to know what else to be on the lookout for.
JC 911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-12, 09:27 PM   #2
mkadam68
Senior Member
 
mkadam68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
Bikes: 2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No rule that says a neutral start is required, RR or Circuit. The promoter & ref should announce prior, either verbally or on flyer.

Other differences? Other than a circuit race covering the same roads multiple times? Nope.
mkadam68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-12, 09:55 PM   #3
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkadam68 View Post
No rule that says a neutral start is required, RR or Circuit. The promoter & ref should announce prior, either verbally or on flyer.

Other differences? Other than a circuit race covering the same roads multiple times? Nope.
+1 - check the flyer and/or listen to the pre-race instructions. They are required to announce a neutral start if you have one. Default on any race would be "no neutral". Even Road Races. Getting dropped at the line and not knowing about the start tells me that you were lined up too far back.

Get to the line earlier.
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-12, 04:19 AM   #4
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,495
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
A common error with new racers (and even with experienced ones) is not knowing the rules and not listening to the pre-race instructions.

Those are two different things.

You should read the rulebook. In fact the rulebook will answer your question for you, and in addition it'll probably teach you a host of things you didn't know. If you're not doing track or you're not a Junior etc then skip those things for now. You should read them sooner than later so you understand that stuff too - it gives you some relevancy to your racing, like what a Junior gear limit is (and think about how fast the good ones go), how a finish is judged, etc.

Next, and this is critical, there should be pre-race instructions. Typically these are rules that are above and beyond the rulebook. They'll also give you an idea of what the officials will look for. It's like state police - you can expect a little break on speed in normal situations, like being able to drive 5 mph over the limit, even 10 mph. Pennsylvania used to rely on speeding ticket income so they had highway signs stating that at 56 mph the fine would be $94 or something like that. The signs detailed fines at 60, 65, etc. At that point you knew they were a bit more serious about the 55 mph speed limit, and driving through PA at the time you'd notice that a lot of the cars were going 55-60 mph, not 65-70 mph.

Likewise, at many races in the area, riders are instructed to keep one hand on the bars at all times, even at the finish. This is because a rider once crashed really hard at the finish of a race. He was experienced, he won, but he caused severe injuries to a non-racer because he felt the need to raise his hands. I've seen quite a few riders get disqualified after winning a race because they raised their hands. This rule, although it used to be in the rulebook, is no longer. However, if it's given as part of the pre-race instructions, it's a rule.

I hope this helps and I hope things go better at the next race.
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-12, 09:35 AM   #5
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,649
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Fwiw we had a (short) neutral rollout at the CR I did yesterday. I don't think I've ever been in a rr/cr without one.

Also, the rulebook: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=4220
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-12, 09:37 AM   #6
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,649
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Oh, was this the Boston Harbor CR? (Judging from your location I'm guessing so)

Since the course starts on a downhill, maybe it was just a really fast 'neutral' rollout. It seemed pretty short in the 1/2's anyway, as in as soon as we hit the bottom of the hill we were racing.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-12, 10:50 AM   #7
shovelhd 
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Bikes: Yes
Posts: 15,422
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
A neutral rollout really has nothing to do with the fact that this was a circuit race and everything to do with the course features. The points about reading the rulebook, lining up early, and listening to the pre-race instructions are very, very important. Too many Cat5's think they know all about racing. If you've read the rulebook well, it will cause you to ask as many questions as it answers.
shovelhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-12, 11:49 AM   #8
pecos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southwest TN
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac S-Works
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Only thing I can add to what has already been said is: warmp-up properly. For a race under an hour (assuming yours was, most Cat5 CRs and crits are under 60'), you should come to the line sweating from your warmup as it will get intense right from the word go. Even with neutral rollout, after that, you can bet it will be BTTW, that's just the nature of racing, the shorter the race the higher the intensity. Strange that they mix 4s and 5s, that doesn't happen in my area, but that would make the problem even worse.
pecos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-12, 08:39 PM   #9
JC 911
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JC 911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Bikes: 2010 Felt F1 SL, 2007 Trek Madone, 2007 Klein Q Elite XV, 2006 Lemond Tete de Course, 20099 Salsa Chili Con Cross Team Clif,
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It was Boston Harbor - I was told later by one of the other racers that there was no neutral start. Oh well, live and learn.
I assume Gig Harbor will be the same next weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Oh, was this the Boston Harbor CR? (Judging from your location I'm guessing so)

Since the course starts on a downhill, maybe it was just a really fast 'neutral' rollout. It seemed pretty short in the 1/2's anyway, as in as soon as we hit the bottom of the hill we were racing.
JC 911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-12, 08:44 PM   #10
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,495
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Don't assume. Find out.
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 06:20 AM   #11
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 40,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Oh, was this the Boston Harbor CR? (Judging from your location I'm guessing so)

Since the course starts on a downhill,
maybe it was just a really fast 'neutral' rollout. It seemed pretty short in the 1/2's anyway, as in as soon as we hit the bottom of the hill we were racing.
which would make it a typical neutral rollout.
botto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 06:36 AM   #12
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,495
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by botto View Post
which would make it a typical neutral rollout.
Amen. I remember Bear Mountain the one year I did it. I knew that at the start there was a sharp turn at the bottom of a fast descent, and that the descent would be "neutral" on the first lap. I rode virtually on the back bumper of the pace car as we started, hoping the driver would get a bit worried about me and go faster than 30 mph or so to try and separate from me. If he did I knew this would create a huge accordion effect once we hit the corner (which is where it's no longer neutralized). Well the driver had to be clear of the field when he hit that turn so he accelerated as we approached it. I hit over 50 mph before I chickened out and sat up and braked. I barely made it through the turn but when I exited it I was clear of the field.

I got caught and dropped on the following climb but that's a different thing altogether.

In a "real" race in Philly there's a few parade laps at the start of the race. Some years ago one domestic squad had a guy puncture as soon as the parade laps started. He couldn't move up in the caravan due to the speed of the "parade". The team sent back a few guys to help him. I forget what happened but I think they lost at least one rider. It was absolutely brutal for those poor guys. The parade laps were nice to watch if you liked watching racers go by you at 35 mph.
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 08:01 AM   #13
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Bikes: Cervelo R3
Posts: 3,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
In a "real" race in Philly there's a few parade laps at the start of the race. Some years ago one domestic squad had a guy puncture as soon as the parade laps started. He couldn't move up in the caravan due to the speed of the "parade". The team sent back a few guys to help him. I forget what happened but I think they lost at least one rider. It was absolutely brutal for those poor guys. The parade laps were nice to watch if you liked watching racers go by you at 35 mph.
That's ridiculous. What's wrong with going 12mph for a bit. Officials had a brainfart that day. Bet that team was fuming afterwards
YMCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 08:01 AM   #14
AzTallRider 
I need speed
 
AzTallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It seems the only thing neutral laps eliminate is an all out attack. Otherwise, the field is still competing for positioning. But our 55+ group here in AZ tends to start almost every race 'neutral', whether it's neutralized or not. We are getting our arthritic bones loosened up and what's left of our brain cells in the game. My most enjoyable result so far came, in a CR, from taking advantage of that and attacking at the start. You have to be ready for anything: warmed up, familiar with the course and rules, aware of the competition, and alert.
__________________
"If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."
AzTallRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 08:39 AM   #15
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,495
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
That's ridiculous. What's wrong with going 12mph for a bit. Officials had a brainfart that day. Bet that team was fuming afterwards
Corestates/Philly always started at Mach 2. It's usually curb to curb at the front, everyone's going bananas because the first break will go as soon as the officials let the race go. That means all the crit pros (i.e. domestic pros) who won't make the 156 mile distance are at the front fighting like it's 2k to go.

I felt bad for the team, it was both embarrassing and tough. I think they didn't have the "adjust brake" bit down pat.
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-12, 09:19 AM   #16
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,649
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC 911 View Post
It was Boston Harbor - I was told later by one of the other racers that there was no neutral start. Oh well, live and learn.
I assume Gig Harbor will be the same next weekend.
Yeah I think Gig Harbor has a similar downhill start, so be sure to line up closer to the front this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botto View Post
which would make it a typical neutral rollout.
Actually in WA they're usually pretty strict with some sort of 15-20mph neutral rollout for a mile or two for 99% of races, this one was an outlier.

But the 'neutral' rollout at Cascade this year was interesting.. We did about 30 mph for 20-30 mins since it was downhill for the first 30 mins, and there was definitely a thin line between it and the race. Lots of nervous braking, good times!
__________________
cat 1.

blog

Last edited by mattm; 08-07-12 at 01:01 PM.
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 PM.