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Old 09-09-13, 09:33 AM   #12551
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esp. since most races (at least in socal) are P/1/2... but the point remains even if they were big enough races to have a 2 only field.
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Old 09-09-13, 09:35 AM   #12552
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I had tire rubbing problems on my Noah. I could flex the wheel with my hand enough to hit the seatstay on one side, but not the other. I dished it a couple mm the other way, and it no longer flexes enough to hit the stays.

I'd check that it's dished absolutely perfectly between the stays, is absolutely true, and that's about all you can do, short of getting a stiffer wheel. Mine was a 32 spoke OP/PT, so it shouldn't be that flexy, but it was.

If it's hitting on both sides, I dunno what to tell you. Is it a super tight clearance aero bike?
rubbing both sides, not an aero frame (tarmac).
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Old 09-09-13, 10:11 AM   #12553
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Hey, if i got to cat 2, anyone can.
+1
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Old 09-09-13, 10:19 AM   #12554
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Hey, if i got to cat 2, anyone can.
I think you are selling yourself short.
I believe that you and I have a lot in common having started young and risen quickly. What will be your limiting factor (as you and I have discussed offline) is focus and other things in life pulling you in a variety of directions. If you remain focused I think you could have a great future...
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Old 09-09-13, 10:20 AM   #12555
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I think you are selling yourself short.
I believe that you and I have a lot in common having started young and risen quickly. What will be your limiting factor (as you and I have discussed offline) is focus and other things in life pulling you in a variety of directions. If you remain focused I think you could have a great future...
unpossible
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Old 09-09-13, 10:27 AM   #12556
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unpossible
I have always struggled with this myself...
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Old 09-09-13, 10:31 AM   #12557
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I am a middling Cat 3. This season, after hiring a coach and actually putting my PM to good use, I began to see form and a few points. But to get to Cat 2 would require more focus on bike racing and training than is personally reasonable. To paraphrase Tom Ritchey: family, career, upgrade. Choose any two.

But I am totally fine with that. I had a lot of success and satisfaction working for an up and coming teammate who just upgraded to 2 in his second season of racing. We'll have a new crop of neo-3's next season and I am looking forward to mentoring and working for them as well.
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Old 09-09-13, 10:35 AM   #12558
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I am a middling Cat 3. This season, after hiring a coach and actually putting my PM to good use, I began to see form and a few points. But to get to Cat 2 would require more focus on bike racing and training than is personally reasonable. To paraphrase Tom Ritchey: family, career, upgrade. Choose any two.

But I am totally fine with that. I had a lot of success and satisfaction working for an up and coming teammate who just upgraded to 2 in his second season of racing. We'll have a new crop of neo-3's next season and I am looking forward to mentoring and working for them as well.
Had I been racing in 2013 the mentoring of new riders is what I was looking forward to so I admire you for doing that. Though many don't realize it cycling involves a great deal of personal sacrifice.
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Old 09-09-13, 10:36 AM   #12559
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I think in truth most guys can't get beyond their conceptual misconceptions of what they need to do to excel at the cat three level to do it. It's really quite possible on very few hours. In fact, you're probably better off. The limiter for most folks is not doing the right kind of training, and the right kind of rest, not volume.

Primarily the reason is it isn't fun. It hurts a lot, and takes a lot of focus. Those fun piddling around BS rides tend to go away also.
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Old 09-09-13, 10:50 AM   #12560
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I think in truth most guys can't get beyond their conceptual misconceptions of what they need to do to excel at the cat three level to do it. It's really quite possible on very few hours. In fact, you're probably better off. The limiter for most folks is not doing the right kind of training, and the right kind of rest, not volume.

Primarily the reason is it isn't fun. It hurts a lot, and takes a lot of focus. Those fun piddling around BS rides tend to go away also.
Agreed. Like the great Bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman said:
"Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights."
Much can be said for guys who race.
I get asked all the time in the gym about my transformation from last October to now, answer is always the same - I bust my ass, I train like an animal, I eat like a beast and I rest. My work ethic is like no other. I get up at 3:45 am to make sure it gets done and it sucks. A guy came up to me the other day and asked me (in front of my wife and another friend) how big I was and what I looked like under my hoodie. We all burst out laughing, my friend looked and asked him why he has to make everyone uncomfortable with his questions. My wife looked at him, smiled, and said he is a beast AND completely clean, he just does everything the right way and makes the sacrifices to be like that.
As garbear said there is a more effective way, it just isn't any fun...
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Old 09-09-13, 10:59 AM   #12561
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It's natural to extrapolate from one's own experience. You and Creatre trained yourselves into cat 2. I simply do not think that is possible for every cat 3 (even those who "earned" their 3).
+1. Just like it's not possible for most to upgrade out of the 4's on points. Those who have it easy think it's easy for everyone else, except it's not. That said, i would agree with the sentiment that those who upgraded to the 3's in fewer than 10-15 races can probably make it to the 2's sooner or later.
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Hey, if i got to cat 2, anyone can.
talent is wasted on the youth, again. And while you are at it, learn some empathy as well.

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Agreed. Like the great Bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman said:
"Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights."
Much can be said for guys who race.
I get asked all the time in the gym about my transformation from last October to now, answer is always the same - I bust my ass, I train like an animal, I eat like a beast and I rest. My work ethic is like no other. I get up at 3:45 am to make sure it gets done and it sucks. A guy came up to me the other day and asked me (in front of my wife and another friend) how big I was and what I looked like under my hoodie. We all burst out laughing, my friend looked and asked him why he has to make everyone uncomfortable with his questions. My wife looked at him, smiled, and said he is a beast AND completely clean, he just does everything the right way and makes the sacrifices to be like that.
As garbear said there is a more effective way, it just isn't any fun...
and +1 to the points on the right training. Before i got to the 3's i harbored some incorrect notions on what it'd take, namely, CTL of 100 or above and 13-15hrs/week. Then i hired a coach, and the said coach wanted me to focus things that i didn't want to do, and i wrangled with that for a bit as those things i wanted to do worked well (enough) for me in the past and i didn't want to change.

I probably ended up doing 10-12 hours on the hard weeks (that includes ~3hrs of commuting /week), and my race season CTL never went over 75, but i had some good races and results to show for it. I absolutely despised the workouts that were assigned by my coach when i started but came to realize that he knows enough to wear Stars & Stripes and send his riders to nationals, so i did things his way.

For the next year, i'd like to average a bit more, perhaps 11-13hrs/week, but really, i don't think i need to spend too much more time per week to upgrade out of the 3's.

i should also mention that when my FTP went from 275-->305, i really didn't get many results. I did have a somewhat good looking number, but that was all. I was really hoping to get to 325 this season but was probably at 305-310W for most of it, yet i ended up doing a lot better. At the end of the day, there are way too many metrics out these that don't mean much and people rarely focus on the metrics that matter. I'm okay with that as a)i paid for that knowledge, and b)it tips things in my favor.

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Old 09-09-13, 11:15 AM   #12562
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unpossible
That was the hardest part of this season. I had no motivation, and just didnt work towards my goals. I got 4 upgrade points, versus the 35 i wanted, and i probbaly will not get asked onto a bigger team for next season (ships already sailed). It sucks to look back and see that i "wasted" a season, but i enjoyed my summer of just being a kid. It was the best summer i've had in a long time.
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Old 09-09-13, 11:16 AM   #12563
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... there are way too many metrics out there that don't mean much and people rarely focus on the metrics that matter...
mods this needs a sticky
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Old 09-09-13, 11:20 AM   #12564
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That was the hardest part of this season. I had no motivation, and just didnt work towards my goals. I got 4 upgrade points, versus the 35 i wanted, and i probbaly will not get asked onto a bigger team for next season (ships already sailed). It sucks to look back and see that i "wasted" a season, but i enjoyed my summer of just being a kid. It was the best summer i've had in a long time.
Luxuriate in this. There will be lots of time to have responsibilities in the future.
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Old 09-09-13, 11:34 AM   #12565
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you guys are making marriage and kids sound like a bundle of joy
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Old 09-09-13, 11:50 AM   #12566
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right right right... but it would take another level to become a competitive 2.
"competitive" is a different matter. i would bet that any cat 3 rider -- in theory -- could go to enough races, take enough chances, and eventually make it. it would be more about rolling the dice enough rather than improved fitness. improved fitness would, of course, help.
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Old 09-09-13, 11:53 AM   #12567
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Nowadays a rider can upgrade based on sniping for points, i.e. doing races that suit them. It's much more objective now than it used to be.

In the old days you had to place in road races and crits. The rep would hold you back if you weren't doing road races. A 2 was a real 2 - they were all strong, they could all climb (relatively speaking) because they got top 6 in road races, they were strong or smart enough to place top 6 in Cat 3 crits. I never qualified to upgrade to a 2 in those years. Maybe part of it is that all the sprinters who couldn't climb wouldn't be able to upgrade so the 3s were pretty tough, and since everyone started as a 4 back then... well the races were hard.

I only qualified to upgrade to a Cat 2 in 2010. It was a long time coming (end of my 28th season racing) and I thought we'd have a kid by next spring so I upgraded ASAP so as not to lose the opportunity. Of course the kid didn't show up until 2012 so 2011 was kind of a non-year for me.
Sweet.

I'm a "real" 2!!!
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Old 09-09-13, 11:54 AM   #12568
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Horner took back 22 seconds on Nibali, now trails by 28 seconds. As an old guy, I think this is just so cool. Of course, if it turns out that he's not clean, I'll be that much more pissed.
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Old 09-09-13, 12:07 PM   #12569
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just assume that they all have equally optimized doping programs
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Old 09-09-13, 12:30 PM   #12570
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Wanted: Powertap with Campy 11speed freehub, wireless, cheap
Anyone know of any?
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Old 09-09-13, 12:33 PM   #12571
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Horner took back 22 seconds on Nibali, now trails by 28 seconds. As an old guy, I think this is just so cool. Of course, if it turns out that he's not clean, I'll be that much more pissed.
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Old 09-09-13, 12:34 PM   #12572
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Fwiw it doesn't seem like it needs to be 11-speed specific, my campy PT from 2009 works fine with Campy 11.
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Old 09-09-13, 12:43 PM   #12573
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you guys are making marriage and kids sound like a bundle of joy
Kids make you faster. I didn't win my 2nd race until my third child was born. All my best cycling performances have come since. Now I have a 7-yo tandem partner who begs me to do more miles when we're supposed to be heading back home.
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Old 09-09-13, 12:45 PM   #12574
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Horner took back 22 seconds on Nibali, now trails by 28 seconds. As an old guy, I think this is just so cool. Of course, if it turns out that he's not clean, I'll be that much more pissed.
you're the guy who keeps touching the pot on the stove expecting it not to be hot, huh?
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Old 09-09-13, 12:47 PM   #12575
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'tis the season: (for some)

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