Random Thought Thread, aka The RTT (**possible spoilers**)
12-10-13, 10:11 AM
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I clicked the year in review thing on FB. It pulls up all sorts of somewhat random stuff as a summary of 2013 (with a disturbing amount of bike related content), this one I actually agree was significant.
Just got back from the doctor. The xray was clean and she diagnosed me with a big bruise on my butt and a strained hip flexor. Some would say stupid injuries for a 48 y/o to be getting screwing around racing bicycles. A guy with me in the waiting room told me how getting old sucked and was carrying oxygen and using a cane. He was 51.
I am going to keep riding/racing the crap out of my bicycles.
Just got back from the doctor. The xray was clean and she diagnosed me with a big bruise on my butt and a strained hip flexor. Some would say stupid injuries for a 48 y/o to be getting screwing around racing bicycles. A guy with me in the waiting room told me how getting old sucked and was carrying oxygen and using a cane. He was 51.
I am going to keep riding/racing the crap out of my bicycles.
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"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
12-10-13, 11:01 AM
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Ah, I thought you'd misread something in the article. I agree that it's interesting though. It probably does make it clear though, that since theyve allowed their use of the name to fall pretty muich to obscurity, Specialized has to be paying them bookoo-bucks for that license. It's nice though that someone directly involved here, stepped in with some common sense and allowed the use. The fact that they went so far as to claim that the copyright was inappropriate in the first place is pretty interesting too.
Things have taken an interesting twist, but the matter isn't settled just because another company is taking advantage of the situation to deal a PR blow to Specialized and gain a PR bonus for themselves. Does anyone really think that Specialized is just going to roll over and admit that their Canadian trademark is invalid and they not only do not have rights to it now, but never had rights to it? Not. A. Chance.
The idea that Specialized is not only morally but also legally wrong on this, and just got comprehensively owned, is a feel-good outcome, and Fuji is definitely leaning hard on that feeling. But that doesn't mean it's true.
12-10-13, 11:28 AM
fuggitivo solitario
Before everyone breaks out the ticker tape, some cold water: it isn't clear that Fuji has the rights to use of the trademark in Canada just because they say so. Fuji has seen an opportunity for a PR win, and taken it. That does not mean that they are legally entitled to allow the shop owner to use the name. There isn't any such thing as an international trademark. There may be terms of Specialized's license to use the word that restrict their right to trademark it in other markets - I am not a lawyer or anything, but even that could potentially be up for debate as far as the enforceability of such terms.
Thank you for that informative blurb, Counselor Martin.
12-10-13, 12:01 PM
Senior Member
I'm actually with you in that I think "Roubaix" is way overused in cycling culture. Rather than being evocative, it is hackneyed. It is lazy. It is as empty of authentic, personal meaning as "epic" (also TM, Specialized). Of course, it is also a powerful marketing association for any any organization in cycling to make, precisely because it is so hackneyed. The fact that it has become imbecilic shorthand for the romance of mud, cobbles, hard men, hard days and transcendent victory is the very reason that Specialized and this bike shop in Canada want to use it to sell their products and services. So it's not like Specialized is some guardian of the sanctity of Roubaix. It's as commercial as Coca-Cola at Christmas.
None of that makes Specialized look like any less of a bully. If anything, the sheer universality of Roubaix in the cycling vocabulary magnifies the extent to which Specialized appears to be run by a bunch of ********. And threatening legal action against someone who can't afford, even if they are actually and unambiguously legally entitled to use the word "Roubaix" in the name of their shop, to prove that they are right, is definitely bullying tactics.
So sure. Maybe when the dust settles a bike shop has a slightly less stupid name. That doesn't mean there's no reason for anyone to care.
For the record, I'm watching more in fascination than in fury, but I sure don't think Specialized is looking good. I definitely get why people care so much.
Last edited by grolby; 12-10-13 at 12:18 PM.
12-10-13, 12:22 PM
You blink and it's gone.
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For what's it worth I can once again hear in stereo sound...
Went home for lunch, we need to vacuum... The sound of crumbs crunching under my berks was deafening *lol*
Went home for lunch, we need to vacuum... The sound of crumbs crunching under my berks was deafening *lol*
12-10-13, 01:23 PM
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I'm just curious about how the fact that many companies (including Fuji apparently) have used the Roubaix name for things (including bicycles) for years before the S did (and definitely before they trademarked it) in Canada affects the validity of their trademark. Does the equivalent of the patent office take back their mark because it wasn't valid? Is prior art completely irrelevant if the others didn't apply? In a patent, the way IP lawyers have explained it to me, if it was public domain before application the application isn't valid (don't know if a granted patent can be revoked after the fact because of lack of proper research by the patent clerk), but if it was not public domain then it would be valid even if you weren't truly the first to find this out if you did it independently and no one else has published it yet.
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Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
12-10-13, 01:27 PM
Senior Member
Sorry, that's all I know, can't answer anything else.
12-10-13, 01:43 PM
fuggitivo solitario
The underpinnings of the validity of a trademark and a patent are completely different and are governed by completely different statutes. Patents are granted on their scientific and technological merits, and that's where prior art (publicly available references or products on the market) comes in. Totally different ball game for trademarks. I wouldn't presume that what applies to patents would apply to trademarks, nor would i presume that what applies in the U.S. would apply elsewhere.
As for your aside, patents get re-examined, some times as ordered by the Commissioner of Patents (i.e. Undersecretary of Commerce of Intellectual Properties, the person in charge of the PTO), sometimes by a third party (usually involving infringement), and most often by the patent assignees when they learn that there may be relevant prior art of which they were previously not aware. Not sure if the same applies to trademarks.
As for your aside, patents get re-examined, some times as ordered by the Commissioner of Patents (i.e. Undersecretary of Commerce of Intellectual Properties, the person in charge of the PTO), sometimes by a third party (usually involving infringement), and most often by the patent assignees when they learn that there may be relevant prior art of which they were previously not aware. Not sure if the same applies to trademarks.
Last edited by echappist; 12-10-13 at 01:48 PM.
12-10-13, 01:47 PM
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I don't know what everyone is getting so worked up about. Are we not at war with Canada?
12-10-13, 02:18 PM
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All this talk about Fuji and guess what rockets?
I'm coming to Austin in March...
Busy schedule but may stay an extra day to get some new boudoire photos...
I'm coming to Austin in March...
Busy schedule but may stay an extra day to get some new boudoire photos...
12-10-13, 02:29 PM
Making a kilometer blurry
Oooohh, get you a loaner bike and take you to the Driveway. You gonna be here on a Thursday night?
I'll send the camera bodies off to CPS for cleaning.
Oh wait. I should probably do that after your visit.
I'll send the camera bodies off to CPS for cleaning.
Oh wait. I should probably do that after your visit.
12-10-13, 02:39 PM
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I don't have my itinerary yet but I think I am supposed to be in on Tuesday, out Thursday but may stay an extra day. I'll shoot you a pm once I know what is going on for sure.
12-10-13, 02:47 PM
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12-10-13, 02:54 PM
Making a kilometer blurry
12-10-13, 02:59 PM
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12-10-13, 04:37 PM
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I'm completely behind Specialized on this brou haha. They arent bullying they are defending their trademark which they paid good money for. Trademarks have to be defended or it becomes the next Kleenex. The shop owner crossed the line when he used the trademark on his private label goods. End of story.
12-10-13, 06:08 PM
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I guess Kwaki better stop selling that Specialized Shiv line of personal vibrators.
I suppose Ridley will be coming after Ridley soon as well.
I agree that they have the right to protect a trademark they bought the rights to. I also agree that they are big dicks.
I suppose Ridley will be coming after Ridley soon as well.
I agree that they have the right to protect a trademark they bought the rights to. I also agree that they are big dicks.
Last edited by Racer Ex; 12-10-13 at 06:15 PM.
12-10-13, 06:16 PM
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I'm completely behind Specialized on this brou haha. They arent bullying they are defending their trademark which they paid good money for. Trademarks have to be defended or it becomes the next Kleenex. The shop owner crossed the line when he used the trademark on his private label goods. End of story.
12-10-13, 06:17 PM
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hey now, I firmly believe the government should only step into and defend the affairs of businesses.
Specialized, regardless of right or wrong, has more money and can afford a prohibitively expensive protracted legal battle that the small business owner cannot. Financial right makes right. That's what makes the world go-round.
Clearly, the word "roubaix" was invented by specialized in re: bicycles, and therefor they have firm legal ground to stand on.
Specialized, regardless of right or wrong, has more money and can afford a prohibitively expensive protracted legal battle that the small business owner cannot. Financial right makes right. That's what makes the world go-round.
According to s. 13, a distinguishing guise can only be registered if it "is not likely unreasonably to limit the development of any art or industry".[4] In Kirkbi AG v. Ritvik Holdings Inc., a case involving Lego bricks, the Supreme Court of Canada held that:
The Act clearly recognizes that it does not protect the utilitarian features of a distinguishing guise. In this manner, it acknowledges the existence and relevance of a doctrine of long standing in the law of trade-marks. This doctrine recognizes that trade-marks law is not intended to prevent the competitive use of utilitarian features of products, but that it fulfills a source-distinguishing function. This doctrine of functionality goes to the essence of what is a trade-mark.[5]
The Act clearly recognizes that it does not protect the utilitarian features of a distinguishing guise. In this manner, it acknowledges the existence and relevance of a doctrine of long standing in the law of trade-marks. This doctrine recognizes that trade-marks law is not intended to prevent the competitive use of utilitarian features of products, but that it fulfills a source-distinguishing function. This doctrine of functionality goes to the essence of what is a trade-mark.[5]
12-10-13, 06:18 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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12-10-13, 06:32 PM
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and lastly
The trademark owner says Specialized's enforcement of the trademark was out of lineBOULDER, CO (BRAIN) — Specialized Bicycle overstepped its bounds when it registered the Roubaix trademark in Canada and then tried to prevent a Calgary retailer from using the name, Advanced Sports International’s CEO told BRAIN on Monday.
ASI says it owns the worldwide rights to the Roubaix trademark — it’s had a Fuji Roubaix road bike model in its lineup since 1992 — and has licensed it to Specialized since 2003. ASI’s Pat Cunnane said the company has no problem with retailer Dan Richter using the name on his store, Cafe Roubaix.
ASI says it owns the worldwide rights to the Roubaix trademark — it’s had a Fuji Roubaix road bike model in its lineup since 1992 — and has licensed it to Specialized since 2003. ASI’s Pat Cunnane said the company has no problem with retailer Dan Richter using the name on his store, Cafe Roubaix.
12-10-13, 08:13 PM
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Note he said "on his store". He did not say "on his private label components that compete in the same market as Specialized goods".
12-10-13, 08:27 PM
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If nothing else, the guy now has the most well know bike shop in all of Canada. That should be worth something.