furiousferret

Personally, I think police unions have been unethical in leveraging political threats and work stoppages. Several cities in California with massive decifits have laid off employees while the police still get a raise.

gsteinb

ok

Jandro 

I've been working in the GIS field for over 6 years now. I don't have a college degree. I tried to take a few geography/GIS classes and found very much the same as you, Creatre: I learn more relevant info in a week on the job (still) than I was in those classes.

However, I'm an outlier as far as being in this line of work, at my company, without a college degree or relevant past work experience. I got an opportunity and worked my ass off for 2 years (12+ hour days), learned as much as I could, and it paid off. Since then, I've cut my hours down to something a bit more reasonable (and learned to manage my time much better) but continue to actively learn as much as I can in a dynamic field.

Even knowing how much hard work was involved, I sometimes still feel like I cheated the system. It's hard to shake off the "YOU MUST BE COLLEGE EDUCATED IN ORDER TO SUCCEED" mentality that was beaten into my head from an early age.

Fat Boy

I'm OK with you not having a degree. It's a successful job with that beard that pisses me off.

Racer Ex 

Propaganda is effective. This country is really good at starting on people at an early age.

Wesley36

I am a total nerd, so I would have gone to University even if it hurt my career prospects. Even so, if I could go back and tell 17 year old me one thing, it would be to go to technical school and get my ticket in a skilled trade, and after that, go to University.

The irony - I was the first person in my father's family to go to university instead of learning a manual trade or farming. And now for money, I wrench on bikes, for a fraction of the wages (side job, main job is stay-at-home papa).

Fat Boy

One of the best engineers I've ever worked with calls himself 'A mechanic gone wrong'. No formal education past high school, but a boat load of practical experience and a good mind goes a long way.

revchuck 

I'm definitely prejudiced, being retired military, but I believe going into the military between high school and college is a good path for someone not sure of what they want to do. It gives them life skills that work well in college and afterwards, and gives them experience with dealing with people they wouldn't normally associate with, including flaming ********. Profs tend to love vets, because when they give a task to be done by a certain time, it usually happens. It sure would've helped me!

Ygduf

It's impossible for unions, hospitals, or other businesses to be unethical. It's capitalism to demand a fair price for services rendered. What are you, a communist!?

Creatre

One thing you forgot on there is retirement/benefits. Look how closely military resembles college in the end. But there's not much better retirement and benefit plans than the military. (I also know this is a very rough example).

Ygduf

Noooooooo

Fat Boy

The guys I went to college with that had done a hitch in any branch of the military were head-and-shoulders better students than a traditional freshman. They also go into _a lot_ less dept to get their degree. I think the best use of time in the military is to get in a position where what you are doing is directly applicable to a civilian job. The guy I knew that had spent 3 years as a machinist was in a pretty enviable position. If you're some sort of specialized soldier, it's maybe a tougher fit. My nephew serviced helicopter guns in the Marine Corps. He's tried to become a gunsmith, but he's having a tough go of it.

I have a friend that is a Lt. Colonel in the Marine Corps. and going to retire in about a year. He's in very, very good shape financially. The first couple years may be tough in the military, but as you move up, it is not at all a bad gig.

rbart4506

I am about to enter the age of Android... I know, a little late to the party, but hey change has never been my strong suit

Jandro 

Huh, before working for the G, I was a certified auto mechanic.

topflightpro

About six years ago, my riding buddy and I were seriously considering becoming police officers. At the time, I was the metro editor of our city's newspaper and my buddy was an assistant DA. The city's police recruits - the guys in the police academy but not yet official police officers - made more than each of us. And they were going to get a $5k raise the minute they finished the academy.

topflightpro

And with regards to the computer science field, I saw an interesting article a few months back arguing that there is more than enough job available, it's just that the companies with openings don't want to hire US workers.

The computer science industry is one of the largest proponents for relaxing US immigration laws to allow it to recruit talent from overseas and largely to pay them less than it would comparably skilled US-based workers.

wanders

"Well hello truckin."

furiousferret

In this case, quite the opposite. Law Enforcement is controlled by the state, and is an exclusive monopoly which cannot be privatized. In some cases another state agency may be able to take over those services, but not always.

johnybutts

Ironically, the prison system is privatized, and there's quite a bit of public clamoring to reverse that.

mattm

It's a complicated issue, I think more complicated than what can be captured in an article really.

There are lots of US-born workers at MSFT at least. And lots of H1B's, etc.

I don't make hiring/pay decisions, but have given some interviews, and where the person comes from has had no effect - it's all about what they can do or not. And the pay is graded on their job level, not where they're from. Just because someone is an H1B doesn't mean you can pay them less.. unless they work in another country, of course.

Overall there seems to be a lack of qualified candidates, no matter where they're from. Some (unemployed tech) Americans attempt to blame "outsiders" on their lack of getting jobs/interviews, but I really don't think that's the issue. The issue is that these jobs are hard to qualify for.

johnybutts

CX should be int he winter Olympics.

hammy56

yes.

Jandro 

Seconded.

Racer Ex 

In some cases.

On the other hand it can screw you up for life; the guys I served with who came back from Nam were, in the majority, pretty altered. As are more than a few of the kids coming back from our latest "Adventures in Places We Don't Really Get".

Sign on the line and you're basically a warm body that they can do with as they please; don't think you're exempted from being sent to somewhere to be shot at despite what the recruiter is going to tell you. And for all the "Support Our Troops" bumper sticker sales and pablum laced propaganda politicians would rather cut your pension than give up a weapons system nobody needs.

That said you get to throw hand grenades and shoot cool guns, and if you're lucky throw tear gas at people and fly around in *****in helicopters with guys who like to hover over topless sunbathers on house boats. At least I did.

waterrockets 

This is my experience as well.

That said, it may well be that some high tech lobbyists are pushing for looser immigration from certain continents just to get more candidates. At any rate, there has a been a significant Asian-born influx into the industry, and starting salaries continue to rise. Common negotiating advice for a software engineer when salary comes up: you should be embarrassed to state your salary requirement, and you'll usually get it.