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Random Thought Thread, aka The RTT (**possible spoilers**)

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Random Thought Thread, aka The RTT (**possible spoilers**)

Old 05-15-14, 07:27 PM
  #22801  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Yeah. It's a weakness of mine

I do use the hoods when standing on a hill, virtually all the time. I'll use them when rolling away from a stop sign or red light, or even the start of a race, when it's better for me to be able to look around. I generally avoid the hoods on flatter roads. I don't know when I'd ever use them on a descent.

I think not using the drops is the most basic mistake that newer racers make. I've never seen someone lose control or otherwise compromise their bike control, at least in a crit or a group ride, on the drops. I have seen really good riders on the hoods break bones, in part because they were on the hoods and weren't able to handle the situation in front of them. The recent one that sticks in my mind is the now 5 time JR national champ that lives in the same town as me. We were both behind a guy that rolled a rear tire. He collected the other guy's bike because he couldn't turn or brake enough. The Junior broke his collarbone. He has won cross and crit titles so he's a good bike handler. However a good bike handler in a compromised position isn't as good a bike handler as he can be. (The JR's bike bounced off my neck but I was otherwise fine, I didn't run over anything or crash).

Another guy, with less impressive credentials, laid his bike over, no mechanical cause, directly in front of me going into the last turn of the New London Crit. It's a hairpin off of a one lane downhill into a two lane uphill. I avoided him, had to shift down a couple gears, and got going a bit later than I wanted. The other guy was on the deck, he lost the front wheel and slid out, probably because he hadn't weighed it enough, probably because he was on the hoods. I think if he was on the drops he'd have made it through the turn. I know that if I was on the hoods I'd have been on the ground next to him. As far as I know the guy didn't break anything. His teammate I think is on BF and said that "he's a good rider". Yeah, when he's not on the deck.

Even someone here, I don't remember who (Ex?), commented on a clip of a guy losing control after hitting a hidden pothole (it was under a stream of water so you couldn't tell it was there). The comment was something like "well he's a national class rider" meaning "give the guy a break". My response was "well, I can beat him if he has a broken collarbone". He was on the hoods, he lost a hand over one of the hoods, and hit the deck really hard. Why wasn't the rider in a generally accepted good hand position for a descent?

It baffles me to see good riders in compromising positions on the bike. In fact in races I often hold the tops instead of the hoods. It's clear exactly what I can and can't do on the tops, so even if I'm in the field, if I feel the need to do whatever, I'll put my hands on the tops. At least I'm not fooling myself into thinking I can brake really hard or something.

For me I try to do the best thing for a given situation, and I try to approach each situation the same way. If I have any doubts about what's going on around me I'm on the drops. If I don't know if I have any doubts, I'm on the drops. This way if something ridiculous happens I'll be in a position to respond. If I'm on the hoods or tops I'm in a compromised position.

So that's my soapbox/rant for today
in short, I disagree. not about better handling in the drops or not, but whether it's that important for winning actual bike races.
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Old 05-15-14, 08:12 PM
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cdr has been racing for 25+ years. you've been racing for what, three years?

:mikey with a beard:
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Old 05-15-14, 09:11 PM
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Old 05-15-14, 09:14 PM
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I watched survivor, and next week is going to be GOOOD.
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Old 05-15-14, 09:16 PM
  #22805  
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Originally Posted by spectastic
if I placed well enough in a 4/5 race to get points when I was still a cat 5, does that count toward my cat 4->3 upgrade?
not technically. you can try to sneak it in though when you apply for your upgrade. the worst they can say is no.
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Old 05-15-14, 09:21 PM
  #22806  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
not technically. you can try to sneak it in though when you apply for your upgrade. the worst they can say is no.
nevemind. I got 6th, which was right out of the points anyway..
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Old 05-15-14, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by echappist
oh i admit i used a bit of poetic license there. But it really does work better than most other methods i've tried (e.g. Goof off alone and elbow grease). With the butterknife, you basically scrap from side to the middle, dip in more Goof off as you go. The process will leave you a surface thati's probably clean enough, but i go at it again with a rag and Goof off to remove any major remaining glue.
Cool, thanks! I'll try that next time. Just used goof off and elbow grease this time around. I wanted to stay true to the recommendations from zipp.
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Old 05-15-14, 10:13 PM
  #22808  
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Originally Posted by botto
cdr has been racing for 25+ years. you've been racing for what, three years?

:mikey with a beard:

in short, I disagree.
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Old 05-15-14, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
in short, I disagree. not about better handling in the drops or not, but whether it's that important for winning actual bike races.
I think CDR's point was that not crashing is important for winning actual bike races
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Old 05-16-14, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm
in short, I disagree.
Thats fine. Lots of good racers race on the hoods and only go into the drops to sprint. I'm not one of them. I'm old school like CDR. The difference is that I will ride the tops of the drops to lay out and hammer when I'm on the front. Otherwise I race in the drops for the best control, and I've tuned my fit to make peak power there.
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Old 05-16-14, 06:57 AM
  #22811  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
Thats fine. Lots of good racers race on the hoods and only go into the drops to sprint. I'm not one of them. I'm old school like CDR. The difference is that I will ride the tops of the drops to lay out and hammer when I'm on the front. Otherwise I race in the drops for the best control, and I've tuned my fit to make peak power there.
shovel - What has that done to your position on the hoods? I'm guessing it raised it.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:05 AM
  #22812  
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Originally Posted by revchuck
shovel - What has that done to your position on the hoods? I'm guessing it raised it.

I've seen his bike... it's not quite CDR-esque in its knuckledragging bar drop but it's close.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by revchuck
shovel - What has that done to your position on the hoods? I'm guessing it raised it.
I'm not sure what you mean. I use ergo bars (oh the horror) and set the hood tops to be flat with the bar tops. My power/RPE is down about 5% up there unless I sit up and back on the saddle which uses different muscles.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:21 AM
  #22814  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I'm not sure what you mean. I use ergo bars (oh the horror) and set the hood tops to be flat with the bar tops. My power/RPE is down about 5% up there unless I sit up and back on the saddle which uses different muscles.
I may well not know enough to pose the question correctly. My assumption was that setting your position for power in the drops would raise your position in general, though it could be that it would lower your position in general. Then again, it could've moved it fore or aft, or any combination of these. Maybe a better wording would be, how did setting up your position for power in the drops change your position from what it was previously?
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Old 05-16-14, 07:40 AM
  #22815  
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:/ does anybody understand map my ride? I laid out a route, see the elevation profile at the bottom, but can't find a number anywhere for total gain on the ride.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
I think CDR's point was that not crashing is important for winning actual bike races
In order to finish first, first you have to finish.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:47 AM
  #22817  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
:/ does anybody understand map my ride? I laid out a route, see the elevation profile at the bottom, but can't find a number anywhere for total gain on the ride.
I don't think you can see that until you save it.

Personally I find mapmyride annoying. I use the Strava route builder, which has the nice feature that if you're creating a route in an area you're not familiar with, it will prefer roads that are more popular with cyclists -- in other words, it will make a fun route and keep you off of high speed no shoulder crappy roads. It's almost worth making a garbage Strava account just for that feature, you don't have to actually upload any rides if you hate Strava.
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Old 05-16-14, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
I think CDR's point was that not crashing is important for winning actual bike races
That's my point. A lot of the guys I used as examples of "crashing while not on the drops" are much stronger than me, and a lot of them could realistically ride me off their wheel in a few minutes. It's super obvious, at least to me, that I was surrounded by significantly stronger riders at the White Plains Crit.

However if they're not on a wheel for minutes at a time, if they're on the deck or nursing a broken bone, then by default I have a much better chance of beating them in that race. In fact I'd say that most of the riders I line up with on a given race day are much stronger than me. This means I have to reduce the odds of something happening to me, reduce the energy expenditure on my part, and hope that things turn out my way. Not hitting the deck and moving to the front when it counts is pretty much my whole race strategy.

I'm sort of like the back marker F1 team, like a Marussia. I absolutely positively definitely don't have the pace. Therefore I have to rely on being as reliable as possible. If a bunch of guys take themselves out of the running (by crashing, by attacking repeatedly, etc) then my chances of doing well go up.

Obviously there's more to racing than just where you hold your bars. However by controlling some of the variables a racer can reduce the chance of hitting the deck, increase their control level minutely, and therefore increase their chances of doing well in a race. Holding the drops is like wearing a seat belt. It doesn't do much most of the time, but when you need it it really, really helps. I think I hit my own seat belt once in, what, like 30 years of driving? But that doesn't mean I don't put one on every time I drive the car. Likewise on the bike I'll go to the drops when things are iffy around me because it's the safest place to be. To ride somewhere else isn't as "reliable" and a new racer ought be limiting potential problems, especially with control related stuff.

Also, to reiterate, my bars aren't low relative to my saddle. They're low relative to, say, the front wheel, but that has nothing to do with how low my bars are relative to my saddle. When I'm out of the saddle my body points up. Even when I'm sprinting my torso is not as low as other racers out there. I just have short legs so everything is lower, the bars and the saddle.
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Old 05-16-14, 08:00 AM
  #22819  
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yea, I don't understand why almost everyone in the peloton uses hoods, even during corners such as this. at 6:15, had I not been in the drops, I probably would've went down.
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Old 05-16-14, 08:11 AM
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Ridewithgps>any other map route creator.Debating a bike rack for my volvo station wagon with 200000miles.not that it wont last another season but i can simply throw whole bike in trunk. So the rack would be for vanity or ifi wanted to tow teammates
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Old 05-16-14, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by thechemist
Ridewithgps>any other map route creator.Debating a bike rack for my volvo station wagon with 200000miles.not that it wont last another season but i can simply throw whole bike in trunk. So the rack would be for vanity or ifi wanted to tow teammates
I still prefer ridewithgps too. Very well done route web mapping app.
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Old 05-16-14, 08:43 AM
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We're 45 minutes from Crater Lake and my wife gets a work call that some guy on the east coast lost his finger in a work accident. Now its a toss up if we visit Crater Lake or the Sacramento Airport

#firstworldproblems
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Old 05-16-14, 08:48 AM
  #22823  
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they don't have surgeons on the east coast?
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Old 05-16-14, 08:55 AM
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They do, unfortunately she's a safety inspector, and not a surgeon.

I'm sure there are a few of those on the east coast as well.
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Old 05-16-14, 09:00 AM
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Gah! Would be great if they could figure out how to send her to do safety inspections before people lose digits. This is like how cops can't do anything to drivers vs. cyclists unless they see it themselves or you get kilt.
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