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  1. #301
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear kensuf! =( I've been there. I spent 4 months in a cast in 2007. Foot still ain't right.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  2. #302
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    45' of BrBa trainer time this morning. Enjoyable. They bought a car wash in a corrupt fashion.

    Nice 5' hill repeats in the 60F sunshine. Power was encouraging. On the way back to work, I rode with some Bissel and Elbowz pros for a bit. They were actually taking it a bit too slow for my "gotta get back to work," so I dialed it up to 400, and, well, you know (let's just say they had to ride around the hamer I droped).

  3. #303
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    I trust you gave them 'The Look' as you rode off.

  4. #304
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Agree on the first point, disagree on the second. If you're OTF solo, power is very valuable. You have no way of knowing the speed of the field.
    i was talking about speed, not power

    what REALLY matters here is w/kg and/or w/cda, depending on the terrain and conditions. speed follows.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  5. #305
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    45' of BrBa trainer time this morning.


    at first I was like, what kind of interval is that???
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  6. #306
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    short warm up, then 60 min @ 92% FTP on the trainer, watching Game of Thrones. My new favorite trainer workup... 88-92% sweet spot for 50-80 minutes straight with good shows to watch. I feel good and tired at the end, but I feel fully recovered the next morning. I guess that is how sweet spot should work.

    Add in a couple days of real FTP work a week and this threshold block is good so far.

  7. #307
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    55 minutes strength work. Could barely walk afterwards. It's gotta be helping....right?

  8. #308
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
    i was talking about speed, not power

    what REALLY matters here is w/kg and/or w/cda, depending on the terrain and conditions. speed follows.
    So was I. So what if I know what my speed is. I have no idea what the speed of the field is. It's a useless metric in this case. What I do know is how long I can expect to go at a certain wattage before exploding.

    And what really matters is heart, determination, confidence, and the ability to ignore pain, not some number on a screen.

  9. #309
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    2 hrs, 32 miles, trash workout, but fun group ride.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  10. #310
    You blink and it's gone. rbart4506's Avatar
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    Almost 2hrs on the trainer with 2x20's thrown in for some fun
    "On the other hand riding down a hill at 55 MPH wearing (essentially) women's underwear and a Styrofoam cup on your head is the epitome of rational life-extending decisions." - RacerEx

  11. #311
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    So was I. So what if I know what my speed is. I have no idea what the speed of the field is. It's a useless metric in this case. What I do know is how long I can expect to go at a certain wattage before exploding.

    And what really matters is heart, determination, confidence, and the ability to ignore pain, not some number on a screen.
    oic. we agree then.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  12. #312
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Speed, like distance, is a 'fall out' number. Power and time is really all we care about. Speed changes based on weather, road profile and 1000 other things. With speed, when you have the wind at your back there is an 'easy' day. When you're climbing, it's a tough (or impossible) day. Measuring your fitness on a bike by speed on an arbitrary stretch of road is like measuring someone's IQ base on the money in their wallet. While there may be some correlation, it's a poor metric to use.

    HR is better than nothing, at least you can get an idea of how your body is responding to the effort you're making it produce. RPE is OK as well, but it's _very_ easy to fool yourself, especially as you get tired. Cadence is interesting, but really tells you nothing of the actual force on the pedals. Power is the only real measure of effort. Time at that effort gives you work load.

    The problem with power is that there are no easy days. They all suck.

  13. #313
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Speed, like distance, is a 'fall out' number. Power and time is really all we care about. Speed changes based on weather, road profile and 1000 other things. With speed, when you have the wind at your back there is an 'easy' day. When you're climbing, it's a tough (or impossible) day. Measuring your fitness on a bike by speed on an arbitrary stretch of road is like measuring someone's IQ base on the money in their wallet. While there may be some correlation, it's a poor metric to use.

    HR is better than nothing, at least you can get an idea of how your body is responding to the effort you're making it produce. RPE is OK as well, but it's _very_ easy to fool yourself, especially as you get tired. Cadence is interesting, but really tells you nothing of the actual force on the pedals. Power is the only real measure of effort. Time at that effort gives you work load.

    The problem with power is that there are no easy days. They all suck.

    FWIW, I use a 1.2 mi tree-protected loop for all my intervals. same road, same bike, same tire pressure, same kit, same position, same barometric pressure, etc... It's also the same course for our weekday crits if they ever happen again. So to say the speed isn't comparable day to day is not exactly true.

    Speed might be a "fallout" number, but it's also directly what wins or loses races. If the winning sprint is 32 mph and you do 30mph, it really doesn't matter if it was 2000W. Likewise, if the breakaway can do 27mph for the last 15 minutes when the field does 26.5... doesn't matter if it's 200W or 400W.

    As for "fooling" myself, since it's the same course, i can directly see if my speed falls off.

    I'm fully aware the most accurate way to do this is to use a power meter... I used one for 3 years. The simple truth is I don't want to. I'm trying a new system for myself. One which doesn't force guilt on me for not recording power when half my rides are on my mountain bike. CTL/ATL/TSB etc... Also one where I can use any wheels I want without any regret of either not having aero-ness or power.










    Last edited by johnybutts; 12-06-12 at 08:36 PM.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  14. #314
    Fly on the wall
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    Base 1 week 1 Gym
    Low Bar squat 5x10 @ 105#
    Bench 3x10 @ 105#
    Deadlift 5x10 @ 90#
    Leg press 5x10 @ 270#

    My squat form is shaky but coming along. It's gonna be nice having a squat number higher than a bench number, looks a bit less odd for a cyclist. Or a human.
    Nothing should come between you and your chamois -- lawkd

  15. #315
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    1.5 hours w/ a 1 hour tempo interval. feels nice brah
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  16. #316
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    jb, if you don't want to use your powermeter, just say so. If you think I care one way or another, you're mistaken. I was just trying to help you out. Have a good one.

  17. #317
    Fast for a sloth miwoodar's Avatar
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    In pursuit of FTP. Back to digging a hole.

  18. #318
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    overslept and got 2 hrs today instead of 3. off tomorrow.

    I think I may make saturday slightly more intense and/or longer
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  19. #319
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    jb, if you don't want to use your powermeter, just say so. If you think I care one way or another, you're mistaken. I was just trying to help you out. Have a good one.
    +1

  20. #320
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    +1
    To be fair, I did. I'm just updating here. And it's not that I expect everyone to track me down with everythign I'm doing. I just felt like arguing.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  21. #321
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Woke at 3:30 to commute 33mi to work...trying to HTFU

  22. #322
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    holy crap that sounds horrible

    im a chemist too but i can start work at 10:30 or even 11 if i want
    by the same token i can also start at 6:30 or 7
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  23. #323
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    3hr high endurance, pretty much low tempo after work yesterday. Makes for a long day.

    Legs have felt superb this week and I think after the power numbers of tuesday and yesterday's workout I'm finally getting to the next level with this base work. Another two months should really put me there!
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

  24. #324
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
    holy crap that sounds horrible

    im a chemist too but i can start work at 10:30 or even 11 if i want
    by the same token i can also start at 6:30 or 7
    uplc/ms and gc/mc stuff that does give me a flexible schedule somewhat but I get home early for other obligations.

  25. #325
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    just stopping by to drop these off:

    1) “If you are not serious in the winter then you have a bad season"
    - Philip Gilbert
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/12/news/gilbert-locked-in-legal-case-with-omega-pharma-ceo_267837

    2) "National Weather Service: Expect A Warm, Dry Winter, North Texas"
    http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...vice_expec.php
    "have fun and be kind"
    - an internet post

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