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Old 12-17-13, 02:08 PM   #6676
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2.5 hours with 1 hour 45 minutes at the lower end of SST. Temps in the mid 60's F. It felt great.
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Old 12-17-13, 02:30 PM   #6677
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Today I realized my ability to put out power varies tremendously between weekday commute and weekend group ride. Even commutes can vary quite a bit. Is this much variation normal or what?

5 minutes of my commute today (after some warm up + spinning drills) at ~80% hurt and sucked.
4 hours at > 0.8 IF two days ago hurt, but didn't suck (yesterday was easy recovery ~40%).

A) not warmed up
B) not motivated because solo or backpack or clothes or...
C) still beat from the weekend even after really easy recovery day
D) something else...
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Old 12-17-13, 02:36 PM   #6678
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I go through periods like that. If it's not rest/nutrition related I find that it's typically mental. Some days I will hop on the bike and feel like putting out power is easy. Other days my legs hate me and it seems like a struggle. Either way I can almost always hit my numbers
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Old 12-17-13, 03:01 PM   #6679
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Today I realized my ability to put out power varies tremendously between weekday commute and weekend group ride. Even commutes can vary quite a bit. Is this much variation normal or what?

5 minutes of my commute today (after some warm up + spinning drills) at ~80% hurt and sucked.
4 hours at > 0.8 IF two days ago hurt, but didn't suck (yesterday was easy recovery ~40%).

A) not warmed up
B) not motivated because solo or backpack or clothes or...
C) still beat from the weekend even after really easy recovery day
D) something else...
This was me this morning. I swear I must have looked 5 times to see if my tire was flat or the brakes were rubbing. No such luck. Just suck.
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Old 12-17-13, 03:25 PM   #6680
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Short commute may have a bit of an effect due to lack of warm up.
Or today could have been especially worse due to a fire in a nearby metal management yard.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:02 PM   #6681
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A-ride. 75 miles with a ton above 90% threshold (280 TSS). Felt great even after fast paced ride yesterday - definitely seeing improvement from these 225 mile weeks! 2 more weeks in the block. Hope to ride myself half to death during christmas vacation
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Active recovery planned for my commutes today as well. Don't let me go over 200 watts. It'll be tough

Swim this morning was a pretty good workout though. I'm usually in the slow lane (2:10 cruise) but today the slowest lane was 1:50. All I remember is "make it stop! make it stop!"
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Today I realized my ability to put out power varies tremendously between weekday commute and weekend group ride. Even commutes can vary quite a bit. Is this much variation normal or what?

5 minutes of my commute today (after some warm up + spinning drills) at ~80% hurt and sucked.
4 hours at > 0.8 IF two days ago hurt, but didn't suck (yesterday was easy recovery ~40%).

A) not warmed up
B) not motivated because solo or backpack or clothes or...
C) still beat from the weekend even after really easy recovery day
D) something else...
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
Short commute may have a bit of an effect due to lack of warm up.
Or today could have been especially worse due to a fire in a nearby metal management yard.
i dont think it's the metal management yard fire.

i think it's fatigue from "4 hrs. at >0.8 IF" + whatever the A ride is + 225 mile weeks + swimming + haphazard training that is more riding than training and lacks big picture focus or clear structure (this is my opinion from reading a few of your posts).
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Old 12-17-13, 04:17 PM   #6682
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+1 MDcatV

Yeah, swimming faster than you planned is not going to allow "active recovery" to recover jack squat. (Re-)read Friel, esp. the part about how training makes you weaker, and only recovery makes you stronger. Recover as hard as you train, or harder.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:29 PM   #6683
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i dont think it's the metal management yard fire.

i think it's fatigue from "4 hrs. at >0.8 IF" + whatever the A ride is + 225 mile weeks + swimming + haphazard training that is more riding than training and lacks big picture focus or clear structure (this is my opinion from reading a few of your posts).
Could be. Not sure 3 hours of swimming has a noticeable impact. The swimming is kind of a compulsive thing - I've been slow to pick it up, therefore I must do it to prove I can.

On the hard weekend: Does it usually take more than one easy day to recover? I managed to average as low as 130 watts for yesterday's recovery.

The A ride was the 4 hour intense ride, more steady/smaller group. It was the day after saturday fast paced group ride more spikes/large group, hence the Monday recovery. I try to get "big" (for me) weekends in because M-F is mostly commuting only 100 miles total. I don't want to do 5 easy days in a row though, so I try to keep the power up mid-week (Friday and Monday recovery before and after weekend). I hate Tuesday to be kinda-sorta-hardish-but-not-really. Maybe start going easy on Tuesday as well and really utilize my longer commuting on Wednesday?

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+1 MDcatV

Yeah, swimming faster than you planned is not going to allow "active recovery" to recover jack squat. (Re-)read Friel, esp. the part about how training makes you weaker, and only recovery makes you stronger. Recover as hard as you train, or harder.
I guess I've been assuming that swimming has almost zero impact on cycling - not using the same muscles. Guess it could impact whatever is going on in the body to repair those muscles though. Thinking about it - I guess it's similar to weight lifting. You can alternate muscle groups all you wan't but still don't want to lift 7 days a week.

Last edited by aaronmcd; 12-17-13 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 12-17-13, 04:30 PM   #6684
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30 minute lunch ride. Felt blah but went out there and crushed it. PR'ed my climb by a long shot, still a lot of work to do though. I have a poor habit of comparing where I am at to the local legends, which is really doesn't do anything but bring in negativity about my progress (which is actually really good). My W/Kg has gone from 2.4 to 3.2 which isn't too bad for a 3 month span.

Some of my cycling jerseys look like football jerseys now
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Old 12-17-13, 04:34 PM   #6685
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30 minute lunch ride. Felt blah but went out there and crushed it. PR'ed my climb by a long shot, still a lot of work to do though. I have a poor habit of comparing where I am at to the local legends, which is really doesn't do anything but bring in negativity about my progress (which is actually really good). My W/Kg has gone from 2.4 to 3.2 which isn't too bad for a 3 month span.

Some of my cycling jerseys look like football jerseys now
Dangerous game comparing yourself to others...
More difficult on the head than the body...
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Old 12-17-13, 04:39 PM   #6686
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Dangerous game comparing yourself to others...
More difficult on the head than the body...
Why would people who race ever want to compare themselves with others?
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Old 12-17-13, 04:43 PM   #6687
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Why would people who race ever want to compare themselves with others?
No it's not that, it's comparing yourself against 'local legends'
Can be disheartening.
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Old 12-17-13, 05:07 PM   #6688
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I guess I've been assuming that swimming has almost zero impact on cycling - not using the same muscles. Guess it could impact whatever is going on in the body to repair those muscles though. Thinking about it - I guess it's similar to weight lifting. You can alternate muscle groups all you wan't but still don't want to lift 7 days a week.
Yep. If something feels like a lot of work, that's your body telling you that it was a lot of work. Swimming is going to be working endurance, threshold, and VO2Max systems, and not all of that stress is in the limb muscles. Heart, lung/diaphragm, mitochondrial, RBCs, fat stores, metabolism, hormones, etc. lots of stuff going on with both sports. Significant core work is present in both.

I really try to take it easier on my recovery days. Housework, but probably not re-landscaping or framing kind of stuff.
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Old 12-17-13, 05:11 PM   #6689
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No it's not that, it's comparing yourself against 'local legends'
Can be disheartening.
until you beat them, then you feel good.

aaron, for me, it's mental. my commutes are easy. My brain and legs expect a certain level of effort, when I try to go near threshold or something silly on my commute, it's a shock to the system. When I'm out on some weekend ride, it's NBD.
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Old 12-17-13, 05:18 PM   #6690
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Dangerous game comparing yourself to others...
More difficult on the head than the body...
This is what I keep telling myself after finding out that I race against a few people with an FTP in the 380w range..

(and they weigh just as much as I do!)
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Old 12-17-13, 05:21 PM   #6691
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30 minute lunch ride. Felt blah but went out there and crushed it. PR'ed my climb by a long shot, still a lot of work to do though. I have a poor habit of comparing where I am at to the local legends, which is really doesn't do anything but bring in negativity about my progress (which is actually really good). My W/Kg has gone from 2.4 to 3.2 which isn't too bad for a 3 month span.

Some of my cycling jerseys look like football jerseys now
Nice! I love those rides when you surprise yourself!
Luckily there's not too many local legends in my area!
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Old 12-17-13, 05:36 PM   #6692
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This is what I keep telling myself after finding out that I race against a few people with an FTP in the 380w range..

(and they weigh just as much as I do!)
You're making me sad bro
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Old 12-17-13, 05:38 PM   #6693
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This is what I keep telling myself after finding out that I race against a few people with an FTP in the 380w range..

(and they weigh just as much as I do!)
Wait is that not normal...
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Old 12-17-13, 05:49 PM   #6694
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Wait is that not normal...
It probably is, for cat 1's. You'll fit in fine!
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Old 12-17-13, 05:52 PM   #6695
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First i need to race again, then i need to win, then i need to upgrade, then eventually i'll profit (barely, but at least it will be something)
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Old 12-17-13, 05:54 PM   #6696
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i dont think it's the metal management yard fire.

i think it's fatigue from "4 hrs. at >0.8 IF" + whatever the A ride is + 225 mile weeks + swimming + haphazard training that is more riding than training and lacks big picture focus or clear structure (this is my opinion from reading a few of your posts).
Bingo.
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Old 12-17-13, 06:06 PM   #6697
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Nice! I love those rides when you surprise yourself!
Luckily there's not too many local legends in my area!
Maybe you are the local legend
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Old 12-17-13, 06:22 PM   #6698
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Maybe you are the local legend
If I am...it's not for cycling
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Old 12-17-13, 06:28 PM   #6699
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Bingo.
I don't know about you, but even my hard races that are that long are rarely >.8 IF. That's a lot of tss. I also don't know how helpful a ride like that is.
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Old 12-17-13, 07:06 PM   #6700
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he's new, working on endurance, and in the middle of the off-season. hard rides will stimulate mitochondria growth. just need to balance hard rides with good rest and diet.
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