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  1. #776
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Racer Ex is experienced enough to know when something's wrong

    here's the point. You don't get 66tss/hr by just doing the type of ride you are doing. It would require either a lot of hammering or a race.

    Although not as bad as inflating FTP and failing every single workout, using a low FTP is also bad b/c you think you can handle certain amount of intensity (i.e. IF), and at a future date when you plan a workout based on past experiences, in reality, you may actually fail to hit your targets.

    and I don't buy for a second that you can't do a 20 min FTP workout as i've done plenty of 35-45 min long FTP sessions in Central Park, not to mention that if you set off northbound on 9W before stateline about 40 seconds after the light turns green, you can be at the top of State Line Hill and catch a green on that light and hammer all the way to Englewood without having to stop.

  2. #777
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virten View Post
    Biked for 5hours 15minutes so that is about 66tss per hour. So...yep. Why is this TSS so hard to believe?

    also my ride two days after was 77miles and took 5hrs 19mins. TSS was 344 but climbed about 8300 ft vs 6300 ft on the previous ride.

    Perhaps my FTP was set too low on garmin perhaps not but why would I lie about my TSS on an Internet forum ? At least jsutkeepspining pointed out why the numbers may be skewed instead of writing "nope."
    Just to put it in perspective, i went out and did 4 hours at .8 IF (thats slightly less than 66 tts/hour), and i'm ****ing sore today, not just oh my legs kind of hurt, i'm at the level where my 4 hour ride today is going to be done at like .6 IF. anytime you go much above 250 tss you're goign to struggle the next day, not just go out and do another 300+ tss day. That's the point eeryone is trying to make.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  3. #778
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    Track meet yesterday: Ran a 2:00.12 half mile, and split a 53.1 in the 4x400m relay...not bad for some early season indoor times. Should have a lot to look forward to this year.

    As for today, it'll be an hour or so of z1/z2 on the bike. Just need to muster up the motivation to get out into the -11 degree cold.

  4. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    Racer Ex is experienced enough to know when something's wrong

    here's the point. You don't get 66tss/hr by just doing the type of ride you are doing. It would require either a lot of hammering or a race.

    Although not as bad as inflating FTP and failing every single workout, using a low FTP is also bad b/c you think you can handle certain amount of intensity (i.e. IF), and at a future date when you plan a workout based on past experiences, in reality, you may actually fail to hit your targets.

    and I don't buy for a second that you can't do a 20 min FTP workout as i've done plenty of 35-45 min long FTP sessions in Central Park, not to mention that if you set off northbound on 9W before stateline about 40 seconds after the light turns green, you can be at the top of State Line Hill and catch a green on that light and hammer all the way to Englewood without having to stop.
    hey echappist, I understand you're trying to back your forum buddy up but I don't remember mentioniong anything about his lack of experience. My comment was more about his comment. The numbers were already discussed previously and it seems my FTP is set too low on my garmin.

    Thanks for pointing out some local spots for me to do my FTP but don't make me sound like I intentionally lied about not knowing places locally. I'm not as experienced as you re: Central Park, I don't think I've been able to do two laps without having to slow down for something. With that said, I've never thought about riding the brakes. Like I said I'm not as pro as some on this forum.

    Carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    Just to put it in perspective, i went out and did 4 hours at .8 IF (thats slightly less than 66 tts/hour), and i'm ****ing sore today, not just oh my legs kind of hurt, i'm at the level where my 4 hour ride today is going to be done at like .6 IF. anytime you go much above 250 tss you're goign to struggle the next day, not just go out and do another 300+ tss day. That's the point eeryone is trying to make.
    Thanks. Yeah I know now thanks to you. I have to figure out what my new FTP is.

  6. #781
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virten View Post
    hey echappist, I understand you're trying to back your forum buddy up but I don't remember mentioniong anything about his lack of experience. My comment was more about his comment. The numbers were already discussed previously and it seems my FTP is set too low on my garmin.

    Thanks for pointing out some local spots for me to do my FTP but don't make me sound like I intentionally lied about not knowing places locally. I'm not as experienced as you re: Central Park, I don't think I've been able to do two laps without having to slow down for something. With that said, I've never thought about riding the brakes. Like I said I'm not as pro as some on this forum.

    Carry on.
    Hey Not everyone can be as pro as moi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  7. #782
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    2 hrs 3x20 hit 24.0 mph on the second 20'.... Now if only I could have done that in the race yesterday...
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  8. #783
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Botto would be proud of the depth at which Ex's hook was set, huh?

  9. #784
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Yeah, that was something.

    +1 to braking for slow spots though. I've gone on SST rides with slow friends and just ridden my rear brake (which is otherwise rarely used) for most of the ride. It's not that much wear really either, since I'm only raising my power by 40W or so, which is all the brake drag needs to generate. So it's like a desk lamp.

    But I digress. Happy Sunday.

  10. #785
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    As my metric is speed I cannot brake in the interval
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  11. #786
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Botto would be proud of the depth at which Ex's hook was set, huh?
    you mean in this thread or in another thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by Virten View Post
    hey echappist, I understand you're trying to back your forum buddy up but I don't remember mentioniong anything about his lack of experience. My comment was more about his comment. The numbers were already discussed previously and it seems my FTP is set too low on my garmin.

    Thanks for pointing out some local spots for me to do my FTP but don't make me sound like I intentionally lied about not knowing places locally. I'm not as experienced as you re: Central Park, I don't think I've been able to do two laps without having to slow down for something. With that said, I've never thought about riding the brakes. Like I said I'm not as pro as some on this forum.

    Carry on.
    I apologize if that was a bit brusque.

    Re: Central Park, it's definitely doable, and i've done 310W + for 35 minutes on it. You'll learn to rail the S-Bend (which is very good cornering practice, btw), charge (well, more like 110% FTP) up the hills, etc etc. It will also force you to learn how to spin to churn out power as that's what you'll probably have to go at 110rpm down the hills to maintain the average power.

    You could also do just the southern loop (the one through horse s*** valley and then cross at 72nd), and you don't have to touch your brakes at all.

    The key is to do these workouts either before 7:30AM or after 8PM. I did mine after 8pm, and especially these days, you may see at most 10 people out (runners and cyclists).

  12. #787
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Recovery ride today. CTL at the highest since the first week of October. On target.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  13. #788
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    6 hours, 129 miles, 312 tss, color me cooked.

    17 hours and change for the week, 320 miles or so. 47 hours and 830 miles since January 1, I think I'll break a thousand this month.

    CTL's over 50, TSB is low, didn't think it was possible to go that low.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  14. #789
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    you mean in this thread or in another thread?


    I apologize if that was a bit brusque.

    Re: Central Park, it's definitely doable, and i've done 310W + for 35 minutes on it. You'll learn to rail the S-Bend (which is very good cornering practice, btw), charge (well, more like 110% FTP) up the hills, etc etc. It will also force you to learn how to spin to churn out power as that's what you'll probably have to go at 110rpm down the hills to maintain the average power.

    You could also do just the southern loop (the one through horse s*** valley and then cross at 72nd), and you don't have to touch your brakes at all.

    The key is to do these workouts either before 7:30AM or after 8PM. I did mine after 8pm, and especially these days, you may see at most 10 people out (runners and cyclists).

    i forgot non-juniors rarely no how to do this. Call me the king of ftp intervals at 120 rpms (that was the last time i left my junior gearing on for a test/intervals...)
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  15. #790
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    40' on the tt bike, worked on position. Lower back feels stretched. Everything else feels great.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  16. #791
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virten View Post
    Biked for 5hours 15minutes so that is about 66tss per hour. So...yep. Why is this TSS so hard to believe?

    also my ride two days after was 77miles and took 5hrs 19mins. TSS was 344 but climbed about 8300 ft vs 6300 ft on the previous ride.

    Perhaps my FTP was set too low on garmin perhaps not but why would I lie about my TSS on an Internet forum ? At least jsutkeepspining pointed out why the numbers may be skewed instead of writing "nope."
    Actually, I thought about this while I was out today. I wasn't doubting that this was the number that came out, but that the number was actually reflective of reality. I also wanted to know how long you rode and in what terrain.

    I'd venture a guess that you do have your FTP set a bit too low. If you don't you have an Ironman power curve, which is certainly possible. But that's a big IF for most pros over 5.5 hours.

  17. #792
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    RX: I don't like the pads on my tt bike. I feel like I'm constantly about to fall out of them. Is it legit to carve up some high density foam and glue it on? Any experience with this?
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  18. #793
    Riding the bike I love. sstang13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    i forgot non-juniors rarely no how to do this. Call me the king of ftp intervals at 120 rpms (that was the last time i left my junior gearing on for a test/intervals...)
    By junior do you mean U19? Here in Canada I'm entering my first junior year at 17 and I have to wait 2 years of this before I can unlock those gears! Ugh! It really sucks, my first group ride sprint a couple months ago with the team had me maxed out on the lowest gear spinning over 110 rpm. And just last week was the same thing on an indoor ride on a computrainer, 5 min interval at 110% FTP was nowhere near 110%, going down a -2.0% hill for a minute spinning out at 120+ rpm and I wasn't even feeling it, just trying to spin faster Sometimes I can cheat and get it to skip down an extra gear but I have to get lucky which rarely happens..
    "You lack motivation because cycling is a stupid sport with no upside that takes way too much time out of your life to be mediocre at." - Racer Ex

  19. #794
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    RX: I don't like the pads on my tt bike. I feel like I'm constantly about to fall out of them. Is it legit to carve up some high density foam and glue it on? Any experience with this?
    Sure. The only place you might get grief would be at the WC's and that's pretty iffy.

  20. #795
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    1 hour cruise down to meet for a 2 hour hammerfest with the team. Two hours of what was practically criss-cross threshold intervals at times. I can't believe how some of these guys are flying right now. That was hard, but pretty much just the kind of workout I needed. Starting build phase in earnest next week, with the pukey intervals (VO2 and threshold work). Was a nice appetizer.

  21. #796
    i got nothing. Crash716's Avatar
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    literally been fighting the cold for 2 weeks…and working randomly till 2 am flying is killing me. Nothing like going from a 10 hour average for a few weeks to less than 4 total for the last 15 days…at least race season isn't 3 weekends deep already here in SoCal.
    14 days...

  22. #797
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Week 1 of build 1 completed
    Mon: 1x40' near threshold
    Tues: off
    Wed: attempted 2x20' faile
    Thurs: off
    Fri: group ride, low effort
    Sat: 52 mi road race 14th
    Sun morning: 3x20' felt very strong
    Sun evening: 40' on tt bike.

    next week plan: recovery rides on tt bike, 1 day 2x20', 1 day 5x5', endurance on weekend w/ sprints every 10', mountain bike for fun/endurance.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  23. #798
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstang13 View Post
    By junior do you mean U19? Here in Canada I'm entering my first junior year at 17 and I have to wait 2 years of this before I can unlock those gears! Ugh! It really sucks, my first group ride sprint a couple months ago with the team had me maxed out on the lowest gear spinning over 110 rpm. And just last week was the same thing on an indoor ride on a computrainer, 5 min interval at 110% FTP was nowhere near 110%, going down a -2.0% hill for a minute spinning out at 120+ rpm and I wasn't even feeling it, just trying to spin faster Sometimes I can cheat and get it to skip down an extra gear but I have to get lucky which rarely happens..
    Here's my suggestions, never do intervals on junior gears. Do all races on junior gears (including training races), a few select group rides (i prefer flat fast ones becuase then i practice spinning like mad while trying to keep power on), and the day before a race (to work on high cadence, high speed sprinting).

    Just remember there are a lot of guys doing well on junior gears, it isn't that big of a hold back (or not as much as most juniors like to say it is ) Just practice race situations with them.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  24. #799
    Riding the bike I love. sstang13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    Here's my suggestions, never do intervals on junior gears. Do all races on junior gears (including training races), a few select group rides (i prefer flat fast ones becuase then i practice spinning like mad while trying to keep power on), and the day before a race (to work on high cadence, high speed sprinting).

    Just remember there are a lot of guys doing well on junior gears, it isn't that big of a hold back (or not as much as most juniors like to say it is ) Just practice race situations with them.
    Well the trainer that I have has enough resistance that I never max out, it was only on the computrainer downhill mostly stuff. But then sometimes it will get me riding outside at times that I would like to keep power on and spin but not be going so fast that I'm spinning nothing (ie. fast group rides, downhill, sprints etc). I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable putting anywhere from 95-110 rpm when I ride so hopefully the next two years won't be too bad for me. Than again, everyone else will have the same restrictions as me Thanks for the advice.
    "You lack motivation because cycling is a stupid sport with no upside that takes way too much time out of your life to be mediocre at." - Racer Ex

  25. #800
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    do you race only age group or age group and category races??


    also 2.5 hours trainer ride 129 tss. My legs hurt whine whine whine.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

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