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  1. #9501
    Ninny globecanvas's Avatar
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    I'm in the middle of a reset, 1.5 weeks off the bike, mostly life schedule related, but I had targeted the spring races and now it's time for a break.

    Turns out I could fit in the Saturday AM team ride tomorrow. Probably smartest not to but they sure are fun...

  2. #9502
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Gym yesterday
    Ez hr this morning
    5hrs z2 sat
    madison practice sun

    Sat will likely be the last huge ride I put in for a while, esp. since SLR is coming up and I don't plan on doing any other RR's.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  3. #9503
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Rosebowl ride last night. 2 hours about, avg power was low'ish, the ride was fast but a bit sketchy. About 60-80 riders total, I stayed up toward the front and took a few pulls to get some decent work in.

    Traffic is hellacious on this ride. Cars turning infront, walkers, slow cyclist! On the backstretch I took a few monster pulls at 27 mph which worked me pretty good, took a lap or so to recover from that.

    Toward the end we get strung out and I'm sitting 3rd wheel. The guy in the very front takes a MASSIVE pull, well over 35mph on a slight downhill(2%). He swings off and the guy infront takes a pull, he holds the pace around 35mph then all of a sudden stops pedaling. I nearly plowed right into him, I tap the brakes and flew left of him immediately. I'm like, "WTF?" He says, "Pull through I can't pull anymore". I take a monster pull and get back into the group to recover. I later see him and I'm like, "dude you don't just stop pedaling when you're on the front, either ease off or pull off while applying power, you just started coasting in the middle of the road". He doesn't say anything and just tells me I should of pulled if I didn't like it. WUT!

    Other than that it was a good ride. Lots of traffic though which kind of sucks...
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  4. #9504
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    Didn't they try to get the ban Rose Bowl Ride a few years ago after a bunch of walkers, cars, and recreational cyclists complained? I seem to remember a few walkers getting nailed after blindly walking into the road and getting nailed by the pack.

  5. #9505
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    I cant imagine why everyone hates cyclists; and there is obviously no need for any skills clinics, especially for these California guys, they're like, way better than anyone else, dood.

  6. #9506
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
    madison practice sun
    Love the Madison. Always had so much fun doing that race. I miss the track.

  7. #9507
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    Today is testing day: 5 x 5" sprints, recover, 1x5' max effort, recover, 1 x 20' max effort, recover, 1 x 1' max effort, all completed within an hour. Comparison of results to previous efforts are how my coach measures fitness progress.

    Anybody else use this protocol?

  8. #9508
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    I cant imagine why everyone hates cyclists; and there is obviously no need for any skills clinics, especially for these California guys, they're like, way better than anyone else, dood.
    Hey man...we're not all bad....

    Good group (16 people or so) ride last night with organized drills . This is a ride a few of us do every Thursday and attendees range from recreational, but fit riders all the way up to Cat 2 racers. The guy that organizes the ride stresses fundamentals.

    -Starts with 3 miles of high cadence drills. Break into groups of 3, then rotate through the 3 riders with 30-seconds of high cadence pulls (150+); work on maintaining relaxed and controlled upper body.

    -Regroup to a 2x paceline with 30-40 second pulls. Maintain bar to bar and keep the group tight. This component heads out for 8 miles or so and then u-turns back in.

    -U-turn to head back with 8 miles of a single rotating paceline. Goal is to be smooth, no gaps, and good communication.

    -Finish up with 3 miles of hammering.

    There are sprint points througought the route (which is completed along a closed length of road 30+ miles along a canal) and the pace can get quick. It sounds like a boring ride when it's written out, but it is a great time, great opportunity to learn to ride effectively in a group, and be efficient in a group.
    Last edited by hack; 04-11-14 at 11:59 AM.

  9. #9509
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    Hey man...we're not all bad....

    Good group (16 people or so) ride last night with organized drills . This is a ride a few of us do every Thursday and attendees range from recreational, but fit riders all the way up to Cat 2 racers. The guy that organizes the ride stresses fundamentals.

    -Starts with 3 miles of high cadence drills. Break into groups 3, then rotate through the 3 riders with 30-seconds of high cadence pulls (150+); work on maintaining relaxed and controlled upper body.

    -Regroup to a 2x paceline with 30-40 second pulls. Maintain bar to bar and keep the group tight. This component heads out for 8 miles or so and then u-turns back in.

    -U-turn to head back with 8 miles a single rotating paceline. Goal is to be smooth, no gaps, and good communication.

    -Finish up with 3 miles of hammering.

    There are sprint points througought the route (which is completed along a closed length of road 30+ miles along a canal) and the pace can get quick. It sounds like a boring ride when it's written out, but it is a great time, great opportunity to learn to ride effectively in a group, and be efficient in a group.
    That's impressive

  10. #9510
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    There are sprint points througought the route (which is completed along a closed length of road 30+ miles along a canal) and the pace can get quick. It sounds like a boring ride when it's written out, but it is a great time, great opportunity to learn to ride effectively in a group, and be efficient in a group.
    You've got a 30+ mile closed road? Wow.

  11. #9511
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    Hey man...we're not all bad....

    Good group (16 people or so) ride last night with organized drills . This is a ride a few of us do every Thursday and attendees range from recreational, but fit riders all the way up to Cat 2 racers. The guy that organizes the ride stresses fundamentals.

    -Starts with 3 miles of high cadence drills. Break into groups 3, then rotate through the 3 riders with 30-seconds of high cadence pulls (150+); work on maintaining relaxed and controlled upper body.

    -Regroup to a 2x paceline with 30-40 second pulls. Maintain bar to bar and keep the group tight. This component heads out for 8 miles or so and then u-turns back in.

    -U-turn to head back with 8 miles a single rotating paceline. Goal is to be smooth, no gaps, and good communication.

    -Finish up with 3 miles of hammering.

    There are sprint points througought the route (which is completed along a closed length of road 30+ miles along a canal) and the pace can get quick. It sounds like a boring ride when it's written out, but it is a great time, great opportunity to learn to ride effectively in a group, and be efficient in a group.
    nice! that sounds like fun and really worthwhile.

  12. #9512
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwchem View Post
    You've got a 30+ mile closed road? Wow.
    Yeah, we're pretty fortunate. I think it's actually much longer than that, I've just never ridden the full length. It's a canal access/security road that is pretty much pancake flat (except for a few overcrossings). It is "open" to the public and as long as folks don't mess with the canal, it seems all parties (cyclists and canal operators) are happy. Great locale for safe group riding, guys to do uniterruped TT's, etc.


    edit: apparently it's just about 70 miles long:
    http://www.recreation.gov/recAreaDet...agencyCode=129
    Last edited by hack; 04-11-14 at 12:01 PM.

  13. #9513
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    nice! that sounds like fun and really worthwhile.
    It really is. I've learned a ton about working in a group. The other local "race rides" are great as well (especially for fitness), but those end up being just hammerfests with occasional group coordination.

  14. #9514
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Today is testing day: 5 x 5" sprints, recover, 1x5' max effort, recover, 1 x 20' max effort, recover, 1 x 1' max effort, all completed within an hour. Comparison of results to previous efforts are how my coach measures fitness progress.

    Anybody else use this protocol?
    I guess it's fine if you keep the same testing protocol each time. I'd never try to PR all those durations within the same hour session though. In fact, there's no way I could.

  15. #9515
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    gees. I'd rather have dental work

  16. #9516
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljrichar View Post
    I guess it's fine if you keep the same testing protocol each time. I'd never try to PR all those durations within the same hour session though. In fact, there's no way I could.
    Yeah...I can't PR on these. The sprints don't add much fatigue, but a good 5' effort really kills my 20' and 1' effort...so month on month the numbers go up, but the last two are never PRs.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    gees. I'd rather have dental work
    From a guy who supposedly has pretty hard workouts, that's saying something!

    The only part of these I don't like is the 5' effort. The last 2' of that are never ending.

  17. #9517
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    Yeah, we're pretty fortunate. I think it's actually much longer than that, I've just never ridden the full length. It's a canal access/security road that is pretty much pancake flat (except for a few overcrossings). It is "open" to the public and as long as folks don't mess with the canal, it seems all parties (cyclists and canal operators) are happy. Great locale for safe group riding, guys to do uniterruped TT's, etc.


    edit: apparently it's just about 70 miles long:
    Recreation.gov recreation area details - Folsom S. Canal Rec. Trail - Recreation.gov
    It's pretty awesome. We take the Team City Juniors out there about once a month and work on pacelining. We'll also do a 5 mile ITT. Much safer than the ARBT, although the wind can be a PITA.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  18. #9518
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    It's pretty awesome. We take the Team City Juniors out there about once a month and work on pacelining. We'll also do a 5 mile ITT. Much safer than the ARBT, although the wind can be a PITA.
    The wind can get pretty intense, but I figure it teaches you to eliminate gaps pretty quickly and it can be fun riding the tailwind.

  19. #9519
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Yeah...I can't PR on these. The sprints don't add much fatigue, but a good 5' effort really kills my 20' and 1' effort...so month on month the numbers go up, but the last two are never PRs.


    From a guy who supposedly has pretty hard workouts, that's saying something!

    The only part of these I don't like is the 5' effort. The last 2' of that are never ending.

    if the five minute max effort is really a five minute max effort that should be enough to cause an aneurism. Never mind throwing FTP and kilo tests on top of it.

  20. #9520
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    I cant imagine why everyone hates cyclists; and there is obviously no need for any skills clinics, especially for these California guys, they're like, way better than anyone else, dood.

    Some of us just prefer, instead of paperwork, actually meeting the new guys, going on rides with them, and giving them first-hand tips.

    You know, kind of like how _we_ all learned?

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  21. #9521
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    if the five minute max effort is really a five minute max effort that should be enough to cause an aneurism. Never mind throwing FTP and kilo tests on top of it.
    Yep. I don't think "max effort" means what most people think it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    Some of us just prefer, instead of paperwork, actually meeting the new guys, going on rides with them, and giving them first-hand tips.

    You know, kind of like how _we_ all learned?
    This would be great if "all" covered everyone who toes the line. It doesn't though, and that's where the clinics can help. It's not to help the people who are active learners in the racing community. It's for the spin class studs who "won" an MS150 and decide to sign up for a crit.

  22. #9522
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

    This would be great if "all" covered everyone who toes the line. It doesn't though, and that's where the clinics can help. It's not to help the people who are active learners in the racing community. It's for the spin class studs who "won" an MS150 and decide to sign up for a crit.
    I said it over there and I will say it here. I'm not against the idea, I'd just like to see something other than "it was better before" that necessitates the need for a mandatory barrier to entry.

    Build it into the cat 5 process, but you still need a few years of data beforehand to know if anything is actually improved.

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  23. #9523
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I have never said or implied that it was better before. Tell us what you are referring to. Again, the biggest barrier to entry is the fear of crashing. Ask anyone. Clinics only help that. And they are not a barrier to entry. You still get to raCe your first race. You just have to go through step one of a clinic first. The FUD in this thread is amusing.

  24. #9524
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Today is testing day: 5 x 5" sprints, recover, 1x5' max effort, recover, 1 x 20' max effort, recover, 1 x 1' max effort, all completed within an hour. Comparison of results to previous efforts are how my coach measures fitness progress.
    Anybody else use this protocol?
    No

    As a general rule with any consistent test, almost anything will work, but a 5 min test and a 1 minute test on the same day is more than brutal, especially inside of an hour and combined with 20 and sprints, I would agree the order you presented sounds good. I would increase to at least 90 minutes, and I would still be cheating on at least one of the last two if it were me. 5 sprints is too many as well, but in general I could see merit in this as a speed test as well as openers to get you ready for the real tests. I would need 10-15 minutes to recover from a 5 min test, minimum, so there is no way I could finish in 60 minutes.

    So 15 minute warmup, 5 minutes to do 2 good sprints, at least 3 minute recovery for sprints, although 5 seconds is more of a max power test than a sprint test, so 15 minutes for all 5 is possible. So I would not start my 5' effort before the 30 minute mark, and would start my 20' around the 50+ minute mark, and 1' test 75 to 80 minutes in. So yeah 90 minutes sounds like a time for me that I could get reasonable efforts out for all 4 tests, but I still think that I would have to cheat one of the final 3 tests, likely the 1' test would never be a max, and for me at least the 5' would be too early in the workout to be a true max, but the 5 sec and 20 minute tests could be maxed out very well on that test for me, with a 50/50 chance that one of the 5 or 1' test would be as well.



    Have fun with your day.

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    jmikami, you're spot on with your comments. I didn't detail this in the workout summary above, but the hour clock starts with the sprints, after a half-hour easy warm-up. 2 or 3 of the sprints are 80% sprints, just warming up the muscles, and only 2 or 3 are full on. Obviously you have a good understanding of how long it takes to recover from these efforts and if one is disciplined it can be done in an hour.

    My results of this protocol are that 20' and 1' are both about 5-10% below PRs...but again I am not sure that is important as what you're really looking for is trends over time. I do this about once a month, after a rest week, to see how things have changed. It certainly gets your attention after an easy week!

    Though this workout is tough, I like that it gets all of the testing done at once and in a consistent fashion. And I like the trends through time that I am seeing...there are definitely observable and steady improvements being made. Now, if only I could step away from the buffet...

    I guess I posted this to learn about what others do to track their changes in fitness...

    Enough internetting, it's time...

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