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  1. #1401
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
    For those of you who can't afford to train with power like myself:

    Anyone looked into getting testing done at an exercise lab at a local university?
    They're always looking for guinea pigs, so I sent a few emails today. hopefully I get some responses.
    I would avoid any lab testing. That will be a snapshot. It may yield you some helpful insight, but probably not. I've had VO2/LT testing done as part of a university study. It wasn't very helpful. High VO2, but low threshold - what do you do with that information?. This was before I started racing.

    I have trained without power for the last 6 months. I still get power envy from those who are training with it. I keep all my intervals on a 1.2 mi wind-protected loop. I do all my intervals on RPE and track my progress through speed. Of course this is about the most unscientific way to go about it, but it has forced me to work harder to get aero and stay aero - in addition to becoming stronger. I like to compare my speeds on this loop to the speeds of races. (This loop was used for our weekly crit series for 20 years).

    Just as an aside - wired powertaps are dirt cheap. Not glamorous, but they do the job.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  2. #1402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
    For those of you who can't afford to train with power like myself:

    Anyone looked into getting testing done at an exercise lab at a local university?
    They're always looking for guinea pigs, so I sent a few emails today. hopefully I get some responses.
    Any chance you have or can borrow a KK fluid trainer or similar with a consistent power curve?

  3. #1403
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    what would the point of this be unless you're getting tested monthly or so to track your progress? if you're not using the numbers in day to day workouts then why bother knowing them? other than for dick measuring, which I guess is probably a good enough reason for most people.

    Edit: you can say dick?!
    Yes, dick is still a nickname for Richard.

  4. #1404
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    Just as an aside - wired powertaps are dirt cheap. Not glamorous, but they do the job.
    Yep, I'm on year 7 with mine. I bought it used in 2006 for $600. One rebuild in that time for $300. So I'm looking at around $10.71/month to train with power (probably the lowest rate of anyone in this thread...)


    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Any chance you have or can borrow a KK fluid trainer or similar with a consistent power curve?
    You'll get a lot of variability with rolling resistance due to tire and tube models, as well as tire pressure and drum pressure.

  5. #1405
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Yes, dick is still a nickname for Richard.
    Leave Kwaki alone.

  6. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    You'll get a lot of variability with rolling resistance due to tire and tube models, as well as tire pressure and drum pressure.
    Sure, but most of that can be controlled. I use a PT on a Kurt and the numbers are usually very close.

    And were talking about a guy who was wondering about a 1 off test, not a full power based training program.

  7. #1407
    HMF
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Yep, I'm on year 7 with mine. I bought it used in 2006 for $600. One rebuild in that time for $300. So I'm looking at around $10.71/month to train with power (probably the lowest rate of anyone in this thread...)
    lol, what a great way to look at it.

  8. #1408
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Sure, but most of that can be controlled. I use a PT on a Kurt and the numbers are usually very close.

    And were talking about a guy who was wondering about a 1 off test, not a full power based training program.
    You just don't want to hang your hat on a number that could be 10% off in the six months between "tests."

    Would be better to borrow a PowerTap from a friend

  9. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    You just don't want to hang your hat on a number that could be 10% off in the six months between "tests."

    Would be better to borrow a PowerTap from a friend

    What would be 10% off? If he doesn't have a PM there isn't much of a way to use the number.

  10. #1410
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Leave Kwaki alone.
    Everywhere I go...
    It is the name of Kings though, and I am a Leo so I must be a King...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  11. #1411
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Leave Kwaki alone.
    turning in my blue star has afforded me the opportunity to put quite a number of people on ignore. granted, most of the page ends up looking like

    This message is hidden because _______________ is on your ignore list.
    there's quite a bit less static in the signal.

  12. #1412
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    turning in my blue star has afforded me the opportunity to put quite a number of people on ignore. granted, most of the page ends up looking like



    there's quite a bit less static in the signal.
    Bull**** I'm on ignore...
    BTW I'm up your way next week, I might have to come visit.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  13. #1413
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    What would be 10% off? If he doesn't have a PM there isn't much of a way to use the number.
    You say it tracks pretty close, but how does it compare for other people putting their bike in there with different tubes, tires, and pressure? I agree that the drum will spin fairly consistently at a given rate with a given power, but the variability will be in getting the power to the drum, and changing everything between them will add some variability.

    Might as well just test on a climb and compare times in calm air.

  14. #1414
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    But it hurts....waaah waaah.
    But I hate doing them...waaah waaah.
    i don't need to test, I can just adjust last year's number...waaah waaah.

    Yes, they hurt. Yes, I hate doing them. The only time adjusting numbers without a test makes any sense is after you have recently tested and are showing clear gains, and then, only until you test again.

    Embrace the test. Treat it like a short race, a 20 minute race. I target a number, ramp up to it, fight to stay there, and give it everything in the last two minutes. If after five minutes it seems too easy I ramp it up again. If you chose your number correctly you won't need to do this. I'm beat and sore afterwards, but all that goes away within hours. It's nothing like a race effort, except maybe a time trial.

    Embrace the test.
    Testing is great training.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  15. #1415
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    A lot.

    I tried riding through a bout with the flu once.

    I won't be doing that again.
    I apparently rode a century with it just this past Sunday.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  16. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    You say it tracks pretty close, but how does it compare for other people putting their bike in there with different tubes, tires, and pressure? I agree that the drum will spin fairly consistently at a given rate with a given power, but the variability will be in getting the power to the drum, and changing everything between them will add some variability.

    Might as well just test on a climb and compare times in calm air.
    I think we are reading Walrus' query in different ways. Without a way to actually use his FTP week in to week out I took it as more of a curiosity thing or for an occasional checker number.

    I don't know where he's at, but I live in the midwest and don't have a hill that would work for that. Literally nothing that is more than a 2 minute climb with in 30 miles. But I used to use something like Johnny B's method with a set segment as a testing ground.

    Fwiw, I just checked some of my tests done with a PT and KK. Given as PT#-KK#-%difference I have 280-278-0.7%, 259-258-0.4% and 255-264-3.5%. The first 2 tests are more recent and were both done with a Krylion at 120psi and 4 full turns on the nob (Krylions slip a lot on a kurt). The last one was done using a Vittoria trainer tire at 100psi and 2 full turns, although it appears this lower setting lowers the reading, too.

  17. #1417
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Bull**** I'm on ignore...
    BTW I'm up your way next week, I might have to come visit.
    Come on out to Bethel. You can watch gsteinb win and me sucking wind and puking.

  18. #1418
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
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    FWIW, the KK power curve did not match up to my Ptap.

  19. #1419
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Yes, dick is still a nickname for Richard.
    I thought his name was mikey?

  20. #1420
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    Rest week for 5 days. Woot. Time to up that -40 TSB.
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

  21. #1421
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    I thought his name was mikey?
    I am often called Mikey...
    Remember Mikey eats anything...




    No matter how smelly it is...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  22. #1422
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    2:23 group ride last night (Wolfpack Hustle). Lots of hard efforts. I don't wear a HR monitor, but I'm pretty sure I hit my max (or went over it) on this segment. Especially after pulling a hard effort on the straight section leading up to the bump. Also, **** everything about this road (ok the view is nice at the top). Last 10th of a mile is 20+% avg. Ouch.

    Basically a night of sustained efforts and intervals. Not exactly race efforts, but not too far off on some sections.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  23. #1423
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jandro View Post
    2:23 group ride last night (Wolfpack Hustle). Lots of hard efforts. I don't wear a HR monitor, but I'm pretty sure I hit my max (or went over it) on this segment. Especially after pulling a hard effort on the straight section leading up to the bump. Also, **** everything about this road (ok the view is nice at the top). Last 10th of a mile is 20+% avg. Ouch.

    Basically a night of sustained efforts and intervals. Not exactly race efforts, but not too far off on some sections.
    Hey didn't I read a similar report in another thread?????



    Bwahahahaha
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  24. #1424
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Hey didn't I read a similar report in another thread?????



    Bwahahahaha
    I don't know what you're talking about.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  25. #1425
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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