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Old 04-10-13, 02:14 PM   #2301
sstang13
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@rbart - lucky! I can't stand the trainer I definitely got stronger over the winter but that's just because its my first year training.

I'm probably going to Sydenham Saturday for 4 hours or so, and will have to complete 3 hours before 11-12 Sunday.
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Old 04-10-13, 02:22 PM   #2302
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Technically no, effort would be the same on the flats, but any time you accelerate it makes a difference. Also may have a lower cdA so better aerodynamics with less weight.

I always ride much stronger when I'm leaner though. But maybe it's just because I also get super lean at the same time I'm getting super strong. BTW I only ever fluctuate about 5 lbs, so results may vary.
But in the end would you be going faster? Generally. I'll most likely have to watch my eating but I really don't think its that important, I don't see myself going to the tour anytime......antyime soon of course
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Old 04-10-13, 02:37 PM   #2303
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I'll most likely have to watch my eating but I really don't think its that important,
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Old 04-10-13, 02:58 PM   #2304
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I may have phrased that wrong, what I mean is that I can eat cookies and cake when I please without gaining weight (atleast not significantly) and plus it's not like I eat like a pig, I eat my fruits and veggies
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Old 04-10-13, 03:11 PM   #2305
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Group ride last night with a little extra before and after. 2:25 and 198 TSS.

First RR of the year on Sat and I'm doing the 1/2 race, feeling good.
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Old 04-10-13, 03:12 PM   #2306
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Leaner generally means faster, period. But. It's really a matter of what your level of commitment and interest in chasing the best possible results is. And diving right into living like a monk as a beginner is, in my opinion. I'm uncomfortable in general with encouraging kids of sstang's age to become obsessed with their weight, though I'm more concerned with young women since they face much stronger social pressures around their bodies already. But the fact remains that you can usually get faster if you focus on getting leaner.

There are a couple of stages, in a way, to how your weight will change when cycling. The first is that, as you ride more and more and become more and more active, your weight will drop until it reaches a natural equilibrium point. For you, as a teenager, that might mean a minimal or very small change, as was the case for me when I went to college and took up cycling and eventually bike racing. I never really got any heavier or light than about 122 pounds. Not long after, when I was in grad school and riding less while getting just a bit older, my weight crept upward by an eventual ten pounds. When I had time to resume riding and training regularly, my weight dropped again, pretty rapidly, before stabilizing at around 124-125 pounds, where I am now (it's higher because I'm in my late 20s instead of my early 20s now). To get down those remaining 2 pounds, or indeed more (let's say 5, just to hit a nice round 120) I would need to go to stage two, and actually change my habits a bit. And that's why it's harder to do.

In general, I would say that you're probably best off, for now, focusing on eating healthy and not on counting calories. You're still developing. If you need leaning down, the cycling will do that. And if you still have some growth to do, you could be gaining weight and have it be utterly benign, and that's something you really don't want to sabotage!

So what I'm saying is that it IS important for maximum performance, but probably not a good idea for junior riders. Just don't go crazy on the junk food.
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Old 04-10-13, 03:20 PM   #2307
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i won an uphill field sprint at an all time high of 170. weight's important, but generally it isnt as big of a deal as most people like to make it, especially in lower cats where the w/kg differences are so large, and fitness is so varied, versus a 1/2 race wehre the winner might be at xw/kg and the guy placing seconds is at x-.01w/kg and trains a bagillion hours a week.
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Old 04-10-13, 03:44 PM   #2308
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i won an uphill field sprint at an all time high of 170. weight's important, but generally it isnt as big of a deal as most people like to make it, especially in lower cats where the w/kg differences are so large, and fitness is so varied, versus a 1/2 race wehre the winner might be at xw/kg and the guy placing seconds is at x-.01w/kg and trains a bagillion hours a week.
Good points here, but sprinting up a hill is a different kettle of fish from climbing a mountain. FWIW.
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Old 04-10-13, 03:44 PM   #2309
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Ya I'd much rather just train harder before becoming a monk to eating healthy. Lol, I eat healthy but don't count calories or obsess over the slightest details....althoughhhh, I did get 120% of my vitamin C intake this morning with a glass of 100% freshly squeezed orange juice!
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Old 04-10-13, 03:53 PM   #2310
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Best to develop good habits young my friend...
There are many things to consider when discussing weight, I am a big lad with a ton of muscle and can climb quite well even at 200+ pounds but will never be able to go after a guy like creatre or grolby on something steep, just not going to happen.
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Old 04-10-13, 04:27 PM   #2311
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1. Losing weight increases w/kg, yes, but does it at all help your power?
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Technically no, effort would be the same on the flats, but any time you accelerate it makes a difference. Also may have a lower cdA so better aerodynamics with less weight.
Losing weight can have an effect on power. Absolute peak power will likely fall due to loss of muscle mass (nobody loses pure fat). Longer duration power may not fall as much or may even increase due to thermoregulatory factors. Shed a layer of insulation and the thermostat regulator of exercise intensity will be less active due to reduced rate of heat build up.
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Old 04-10-13, 06:52 PM   #2312
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90min on the trainer...60min at endurance pace with 45sec sprints every 5min.

Legs are feeling not too bad considering...

Running a TSB of -20 at the moment and still have a few wicked workouts left this week...I'll be happy when recovery week arrives...
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Old 04-10-13, 07:29 PM   #2313
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Good points here, but sprinting up a hill is a different kettle of fish from climbing a mountain. FWIW.
Doesn't sstang live in a flatish area? i find that sub 5-10 minutes and w/kg can be fibbed. at 145 lbs my 5 min w/kg was not that different from my 5 min w/kg at 155, but my ftp was huge (like .3 w/kg difference). if all i dd was climb mountains all day i would worry about my weight, but at the moment i climb between 30 second to 5 minute climbs. at 155 lbs im still a rather high w/kg, and even at 160 im north of 6.1 w/kg, so for me gaining a bit of weight isnt the end of the world. It's not great, but nothing ot stress over, heck i doubt i would even care if i wasn't going and racing 1/2 races tbh.
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Old 04-10-13, 07:53 PM   #2314
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Yes, the longest climb I've ever done around my area was 5 minutes at an average of ~12 km/h. Even in my races the bigger climbs aren't even that long because momentum carries you up 1/4-1/3 of it. Sucks for me because I think I'd finish in the top half of the groups on climbs based on past experiences.
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Old 04-10-13, 08:06 PM   #2315
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Losing weight can have an effect on power. Absolute peak power will likely fall due to loss of muscle mass (nobody loses pure fat). Longer duration power may not fall as much or may even increase due to thermoregulatory factors. Shed a layer of insulation and the thermostat regulator of exercise intensity will be less active due to reduced rate of heat build up.
Yeah, I went from 183 to 167 and dropped 100W off my sprint, 50W off my 1' power, but gained 25W at threshold. Another effect for the threshold gain would be the kind of base training it took to lose the weight.
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Old 04-10-13, 08:16 PM   #2316
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Today: 6 hours on the bike at 45F in the rain. All worth it to ride with a handful of our wounded warriors (R2R). Held back tears watching an entire elementary school cheering for guys and gals who rode there without some of their limbs.

It took about 40 minutes to get the feeling back into my left foot.
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Old 04-10-13, 08:28 PM   #2317
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Doesn't sstang live in a flatish area? i find that sub 5-10 minutes and w/kg can be fibbed. at 145 lbs my 5 min w/kg was not that different from my 5 min w/kg at 155, but my ftp was huge (like .3 w/kg difference). if all i dd was climb mountains all day i would worry about my weight, but at the moment i climb between 30 second to 5 minute climbs. at 155 lbs im still a rather high w/kg, and even at 160 im north of 6.1 w/kg, so for me gaining a bit of weight isnt the end of the world. It's not great, but nothing ot stress over, heck i doubt i would even care if i wasn't going and racing 1/2 races tbh.
A 5-minute climb is easily long enough for weight to become important, in my opinion. It's not the be-all, end-all, but then it never is; the engine is the biggest determining factor. But if you have to do a lot of 5-minute climbs, dropping some weight will definitely help. Around here, almost nothing is even that long, though. Oh, it'll be nice to get to New England.
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Old 04-10-13, 08:39 PM   #2318
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I have been holding onto a few extra kg for the last two months after being at an all time low of 69 kg in early Jan. (height = 6í) Around here we have mtns and that is my favorite type of riding. Iím hoping to get rid of a least a solid kg before the next mtn TT. It is one of the shorter climbs with respectable times coming in around 45 min. This is on a 5% grade, pretty steady as well. I was quite a bit faster climbing at that weight. The state championship here is nearby with good times around 1 hour 35 min. on an 8% grade that gets up to 15% at times. Luckily that is in Sept. [Mt. Graham]

And work is preventing me from getting to the mtn tomorrow.
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Old 04-10-13, 09:52 PM   #2319
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2.5 hours of endurance.

85F out!! Sweet.
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Old 04-10-13, 10:23 PM   #2320
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Losing weight can have an effect on power. Absolute peak power will likely fall due to loss of muscle mass (nobody loses pure fat). Longer duration power may not fall as much or may even increase due to thermoregulatory factors. Shed a layer of insulation and the thermostat regulator of exercise intensity will be less active due to reduced rate of heat build up.
When I went on my weight dropping game about 1 1/2 years ago, I was counting every calorie and got pretty OCD with it. Absolute power definitely dropped. FTP stayed fairly constant, but W/Kg went up across the board. What really took a hit for me was repeated efforts. For instance, my 5 minute test power was good, but if I rested and then took another stab at it, I would suck. I really struggled to recover off the bike from day to day and on the bike from effort to effort. I'm about 10 pounds heavier than I was then. My threshold is about the same (so W/Kg is down), but I can be a bit racier because my micro-recovery (from effort to effort during a single ride) is much better and my recovery from day to day is also quite a bit better. At times, I've been able to put 3 difficult days in a row together, which is very good for me.

As far as the climbing advantage goes, it was there, but difficult to use. It really was apparent on 10%+ climbs, but those aren't that common. On the much more common 3-6% climbs, the bigger power-climbers could still hurt me, especially if they stuck me out in the wind.
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Old 04-10-13, 10:26 PM   #2321
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3 hours tonight with the racer contingent of the club. It was 30 minutes to the group up. Then we hammered for 2 hours including a nasty little 10 minute climb. We had lots of cross wind and spent a lot of time in the gutter. I'm pretty torn up right now. Tomorrow will be a Z2 day.
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Old 04-11-13, 05:37 AM   #2322
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Great job, wookie. I did a similar deal for an MS ride in 2011. Long, cold, wet, difficult. My sister cried her eyes out. Totally worth it.

In my first season back racing I raced at 143 lbs. Did well. In my second season I started at 143, then got a coach who advised me not to worry about a kilo but to focus on hard efforts and recovery. I went up to 145. Did well. I had never been stronger. I am racing now at 145. I would gladly trade a kilo for recovery. I never used to think like that. A good coach is worth every penny you pay them. Hands down.
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Old 04-11-13, 10:06 AM   #2323
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Life conspired to keep me off the bike since Monday. z2 climby ride tonight, hill repeat smashfest tomorrow, endurance over the weekend. Itching to get on my bike...
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Old 04-11-13, 10:08 AM   #2324
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Life conspired to keep me off the bike since Monday. z2 climby ride tonight, hill repeat smashfest tomorrow, endurance over the weekend. Itching to get on my bike...
Racing Santa Cruz this weekend?
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Old 04-11-13, 10:19 AM   #2325
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I decided to hit up Fiesta Island 12 hours before the Thursday Night Worlds and do some solo 2x20's instead. My rest week last week was lazier and drunker than usual so I felt like I could use a little bit of push on my threshold instead of going full gas on some stale legs. That's not to say that I took them easy; I spent the last 10' of the second interval at or above my LTHR.

The weekend should bring a shortish (2hr) hammerfest on sat and longer z1/2 on sun. I could do the Cyclovet's crit on Sunday but my new race bike is being assembled by the LBS over this weekend and the course sucks balls anyway.
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