Training Status??? (III)
01-19-14, 09:01 AM
#7651
Ninny
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I am no expert, but this is my layman's interpretation of Seiler's presentation.
From a couple of early slides, and from his actual paper, I believe the lines he draws between what he calls low-intensity, medium-intensity, and high-intensity are what most of us would refer to as Z1/Z2=low, Z3=medium, Z4+=high. Specifically he uses a physiological marker of lactate accumulation to delineate medium-intensity from high-intensity, in other words the lactate threshold, which is what many zone systems refer to as Z4 (>=91% FTP, >=95% HR per Coggan).
Definitions are everything and everybody's got their own, but from the commonly used crossover chart describing SST, the "sweet spot" is quite wide, 70-100% of FTP. I believe Seiler's advice would be to avoid training in most of that range, and focus on doing this type of work at greater than 90% of FTP.
If you don't like this advice, I'm sure you could find another PhD with a bunch of slides to support training a different way. It's just a presentation. As Groucho said, "those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."
From a couple of early slides, and from his actual paper, I believe the lines he draws between what he calls low-intensity, medium-intensity, and high-intensity are what most of us would refer to as Z1/Z2=low, Z3=medium, Z4+=high. Specifically he uses a physiological marker of lactate accumulation to delineate medium-intensity from high-intensity, in other words the lactate threshold, which is what many zone systems refer to as Z4 (>=91% FTP, >=95% HR per Coggan).
Definitions are everything and everybody's got their own, but from the commonly used crossover chart describing SST, the "sweet spot" is quite wide, 70-100% of FTP. I believe Seiler's advice would be to avoid training in most of that range, and focus on doing this type of work at greater than 90% of FTP.
If you don't like this advice, I'm sure you could find another PhD with a bunch of slides to support training a different way. It's just a presentation. As Groucho said, "those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."
Last edited by globecanvas; 01-19-14 at 09:14 AM.
01-19-14, 09:15 AM
#7652
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
I believe a big flaw in all these studies as applied to cyclists is the metrics for improvement are things like a 10k or some other steady state activity. Of course most bike races aren't that at all.
01-19-14, 09:34 AM
#7653
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I agree with both your comments, gsteinb.
The description of what the zones were was brief, and there was an assumption that we all know what those tests that demarcate the zones are, but it wasn't clear to me. And when we are supposed to train at >90% -- 90% of what? Apparently not FTP, which is what most of us watts-based trainers are basing our training zones around. Max something, I guess?
The only thing that seemed pretty clear was that the 4x8' training interval produced the best results. 8 minutes at an effort of as-hard-as-possible-for-8-minutes, yeah, that sounds really hard.
The description of what the zones were was brief, and there was an assumption that we all know what those tests that demarcate the zones are, but it wasn't clear to me. And when we are supposed to train at >90% -- 90% of what? Apparently not FTP, which is what most of us watts-based trainers are basing our training zones around. Max something, I guess?
The only thing that seemed pretty clear was that the 4x8' training interval produced the best results. 8 minutes at an effort of as-hard-as-possible-for-8-minutes, yeah, that sounds really hard.
01-19-14, 01:27 PM
#7655
Senior Member
Had to go to the bike shop, so in spite of an AM snow shower, I bundled up and hopped on the cross bike. Second ride outside since my crash, first on anything with drop bars. Maybe a bad choice of day, but the air temp was above freezing and it was sunny. Rode like a scared old person out to the shop, a little more confident and energetic but still slow on the way back. All in all, I felt decent, still not going to resume regular outdoor riding just yet. I just don't want the risk. But it was nice to get an hour or so in the sunshine.
01-19-14, 01:49 PM
#7656
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Had to go to the bike shop, so in spite of an AM snow shower, I bundled up and hopped on the cross bike. Second ride outside since my crash, first on anything with drop bars. Maybe a bad choice of day, but the air temp was above freezing and it was sunny. Rode like a scared old person out to the shop, a little more confident and energetic but still slow on the way back. All in all, I felt decent, still not going to resume regular outdoor riding just yet. I just don't want the risk. But it was nice to get an hour or so in the sunshine.
01-19-14, 02:54 PM
#7657
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Didn't ride today nor yesterday.
I am either a slacker or taking a hyper-agressive taper before next weekend and the first race of the season.
The first answer is the correct one, BTW.
I am either a slacker or taking a hyper-agressive taper before next weekend and the first race of the season.
The first answer is the correct one, BTW.
01-19-14, 03:26 PM
#7659
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me too. just finished my block: 13.5hrs for this week, 4.5 today.
I'm looking fwd to being lazy and doing a few easy rides next week.
I'm looking fwd to being lazy and doing a few easy rides next week.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
01-19-14, 05:02 PM
#7661
Must Go Faster
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Thanks shovel
This year's looking good! Finished with school last August and now am giving riding a full time a go. New team this year - Pioneer Mortgage - our focus will be regional southeast races, NRC road races, a couple NCC crits, and a few selected other races (still finalizing the race schedule with my teammates).
Nice 5 hr endurance ride yesterday, today was the local "Battle Of Olustee" - first 70 miles easy, race back to town the last 40. Got in a 3 man move with two other pretty strong guys from Interactive Metronome, ended up 2nd after being out tactic-ed at the end. Not bad considering I've just been doing base miles except for a couple cross races lol.
This year's looking good! Finished with school last August and now am giving riding a full time a go. New team this year - Pioneer Mortgage - our focus will be regional southeast races, NRC road races, a couple NCC crits, and a few selected other races (still finalizing the race schedule with my teammates).
Nice 5 hr endurance ride yesterday, today was the local "Battle Of Olustee" - first 70 miles easy, race back to town the last 40. Got in a 3 man move with two other pretty strong guys from Interactive Metronome, ended up 2nd after being out tactic-ed at the end. Not bad considering I've just been doing base miles except for a couple cross races lol.
01-19-14, 05:30 PM
#7662
Elite Fred
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- first 70 miles easy, race back to town the last 40. Got in a 3 man move with two other pretty strong guys from Interactive Metronome, ended up 2nd after being out tactic-ed at the end. Not bad considering I've just been doing base miles except for a couple cross races lol.
And it is a bit more than miles than 110 and a bit more than endurance the last 40 miles or so especially if you "podium".
Bravo.
01-19-14, 06:10 PM
#7663
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I am sorry I missed it. Friday night my wife and I decided to be spontaneous and on Saturday we drove to Auburn to watch the Gators play hoops. Then we had to drive back and got home just after 1 am and fully caffeinated. I didn't get up in time.
Steak knives ain't bad.
And it is a bit more than miles than 110 and a bit more than endurance the last 40 miles or so especially if you "podium".
Bravo.
Steak knives ain't bad.
And it is a bit more than miles than 110 and a bit more than endurance the last 40 miles or so especially if you "podium".
Bravo.
01-19-14, 07:24 PM
#7664
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cruised around like a boss around the neighborhood doing high cadence intervals in Z1. Got a new helmet cause the straps broke off on my old one 
, I submitted into ugly territory and bought an air attack...already regretting it.
, I submitted into ugly territory and bought an air attack...already regretting it.
01-19-14, 07:42 PM
#7665
These Guys Eat Oreos
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Had to go to the bike shop, so in spite of an AM snow shower, I bundled up and hopped on the cross bike. Second ride outside since my crash, first on anything with drop bars. Maybe a bad choice of day, but the air temp was above freezing and it was sunny. Rode like a scared old person out to the shop, a little more confident and energetic but still slow on the way back. All in all, I felt decent, still not going to resume regular outdoor riding just yet. I just don't want the risk. But it was nice to get an hour or so in the sunshine.
01-19-14, 07:44 PM
#7666
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I agree with both your comments, gsteinb.
The description of what the zones were was brief, and there was an assumption that we all know what those tests that demarcate the zones are, but it wasn't clear to me. And when we are supposed to train at >90% -- 90% of what? Apparently not FTP, which is what most of us watts-based trainers are basing our training zones around. Max something, I guess?
The only thing that seemed pretty clear was that the 4x8' training interval produced the best results. 8 minutes at an effort of as-hard-as-possible-for-8-minutes, yeah, that sounds really hard.
The description of what the zones were was brief, and there was an assumption that we all know what those tests that demarcate the zones are, but it wasn't clear to me. And when we are supposed to train at >90% -- 90% of what? Apparently not FTP, which is what most of us watts-based trainers are basing our training zones around. Max something, I guess?
The only thing that seemed pretty clear was that the 4x8' training interval produced the best results. 8 minutes at an effort of as-hard-as-possible-for-8-minutes, yeah, that sounds really hard.
01-19-14, 07:48 PM
#7667
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How do you like it? I think I'm set on an evade I've been using a $50 bell for the last couple years so I can't get an uglier helmet at this point.
01-19-14, 08:38 PM
#7668
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just a tad under 3hrs with some endurance and tempo on the rollers of course...
Block done! Rest week ahead, I need it!
Block done! Rest week ahead, I need it!
01-19-14, 08:39 PM
#7669
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Team ride. 195 TSS. Good stuff.
01-19-14, 08:51 PM
#7670
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Just started following a structured (not customized for me...using one from The Sufferfest) plan for 10 weeks. Then I'll have to figure something out for the 10 weeks after that, before my A race. I noticed a difference on the bike, but it's likely just in my head since I haven't ridden outside in a couple of months (too cold for me).
01-19-14, 09:10 PM
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It's super comfortable though and very light. It was 85 degrees on my ride this afternoon and it wasn't hot at ALL. Then again my HR didn't go over 120 haha.
If you can get past the looks, the helmet is great.
01-19-14, 11:39 PM
#7672
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01-20-14, 10:05 AM
#7674
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