Training Status??? (III)
#9626
Making a kilometer blurry
90% FTP is something you can do for much longer than an hour, so if you are doing 20 min efforts, it should be an effort, at or over 100% in my book. If you are working on SST/sub FTP it should be near or greater than an hour or just used for recovery/pacing in my book. Just because the guy finished the tour doesn't mean he knows how to train, just because me or someone else says it doesn't make it so either. Any amount of work will help you be a better cyclist, I use to train at SST for 20-40 hours a week. It made me very strong but was a horrible waste of time and very inefficient.
I mostly train by going over/at power under duration, rest and repeat, the other option is under power over duration, rest and repeat. To me that is interval training, the only time I would go under power and under duration would be high intensity (sub 2 minutes) with very short recovery (under one minute) to work on recovery. Anything where you go less power and less duration is not making very good use of your time if it is a day to get work done. It will do something and can eventually work, but I will tell anyone that is not an efficient way to train.
I mostly train by going over/at power under duration, rest and repeat, the other option is under power over duration, rest and repeat. To me that is interval training, the only time I would go under power and under duration would be high intensity (sub 2 minutes) with very short recovery (under one minute) to work on recovery. Anything where you go less power and less duration is not making very good use of your time if it is a day to get work done. It will do something and can eventually work, but I will tell anyone that is not an efficient way to train.
I understand where you're coming from, but this 2x20 @ 90% workout is in the quiver, not a cornerstone. It would be like a transition workout near the end of base, like do 2 hours at tempo, then 2x20 @ 90%. Also useful if there's no real TSS headroom for a more intense workout, but still looking to hit some of the same stress/recovery/adaptations.
#9627
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I agree it is a workout, my issue was calling it an interval ... which is really just semantics and the idea that because he was/is a pro he knows how to train - I have seen many people burned by the he is a pro and therefore if I copy parts of what he does I will be better. I think SST training is great for oxygen flow and teaching your body to burn fat, but I don't understand the idea that you would need/want to break it up into two 20 minute sessions, just do the 40 all at once or push it to 90 minutes and make it solid workout. Making it two 20 minute efforts seems more like a hard recovery ride, and why would you do that to yourself - so to me that ride is neither here nor there. I was thinking it would be a good middle/start base effort or for a novice ... but I just I am just nit picking now.
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In other news, at 5am it is 8 degrees Celsius outside - for me, this means it is a great time to start doing dawn patrol rides again. Except I have soreness in both my achilles tendons. I think this means it is time for an involuntary rest day.
Last edited by Wesley36; 04-21-14 at 04:06 AM.
#9629
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back from family ski trip in colorado. fantastic conditions. 7 days off the bike, did a group ride on sat and totally slayed it, nearly an all time max W in a county line sprint (I know, dorky but I was feeling good). living at 9700 feet for a week with lots of time above 12,000, idk if that could that have influenced my oxygen uptake but I felt fantastic on very little sleep. no wonder tetonrider kicks so much ass when he descends down to take on us low-landers!
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20 to 40 hours per week @ SST range? you sure you have your definitions of SST right? i dont think the boys of team sky could do that and recover from it, hell, I dont think the boys from USPS or Telekom could have done that and recovered from it.
#9633
Making a kilometer blurry
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My thoughts exactly. My understanding is that SST is ~90% (+/-2%) of FTP.
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#9636
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My point was to place a dig on blindly following advice from pros without a complete package, and that SST training should be longer than 20 minutes and not considered an interval, in my book. Neither of which was really needed at the time, but I added my 2 cents anyways.
So yes I am the guy on the internet who rides for 4 hours at SST and then sprints at 40 mph ... and of course the answer to that is no chance.
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I was not meaning to be precise, but was riding over 600 miles a week back then and had just one speed - just under threshold. I read about some pros in the 80s who trained 700 mile weeks to prep for the tour and figured I needed to do the same for my 45 min crits and 20 mile TTs, but I was going pro too I was young and had no life and no clue about anything. I started out a 20 mph on each ride and then would hold it until I dropped and then ride home. So while I am sure I was not at 90% FTP for the whole ride, every ride, that was my style and I would categorize every ride as an SST, every day - go just under as hard as you can and hold it. I only trained with a speedometer, my final week of training before blowing a gasket was over 700 miles ... an no I did not average 20 mph for the entire 700 miles, but that was just my only ride goal - and I would say I was near SST for most of my rides. I was not riding smart.
My point was to place a dig on blindly following advice from pros without a complete package, and that SST training should be longer than 20 minutes and not considered an interval, in my book. Neither of which was really needed at the time, but I added my 2 cents anyways.
So yes I am the guy on the internet who rides for 4 hours at SST and then sprints at 40 mph ... and of course the answer to that is no chance.
My point was to place a dig on blindly following advice from pros without a complete package, and that SST training should be longer than 20 minutes and not considered an interval, in my book. Neither of which was really needed at the time, but I added my 2 cents anyways.
So yes I am the guy on the internet who rides for 4 hours at SST and then sprints at 40 mph ... and of course the answer to that is no chance.
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"Typical intensity of longer (3-8 min) intervals intended to increase VO2max. Strong to severe sensations of leg effort/fatigue, such that completion of more than 30-40 min total training time is difficult at best. Conversation not possible due to often 'ragged' breathing. Should generally be attempted only when adequately recovered from prior training - consecutive days of level 5 work not necessarily desirable even if possible. Note: At this level, the average heart rate may not be due to slowness of heart rate response and/or ceiling imposed by maximum heart rate)"
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^vo2max is just the maximum rate of oxygen consumption per mass that an individual can take in (that might not be exact definition, but you get the idea), so getting to that physiological point can be done in ways differing from doing 3 to 8 min intervals, including multiple shorter intervals with short rest in between reps.
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I was not meaning to be precise, but was riding over 600 miles a week back then and had just one speed - just under threshold. I read about some pros in the 80s who trained 700 mile weeks to prep for the tour and figured I needed to do the same for my 45 min crits and 20 mile TTs, but I was going pro too I was young and had no life and no clue about anything.
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#9643
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Typical is the key word here. 30on 30off is something I consider to be at the top of my Vo2Max work - way more pain than 3-8 minute efforts for me - working the same system in a different way. I have never tried 15/15, but that seems to just be a different way to do the say thing ... if repeated enough. The key is level of effort, so if you are not as well trained a 15/15 would likely be the same as a 30/30. although I would be worried about too much ATP stuff at the 15/15 level I am always mixing up my training systems. I love tossing 10-30 efforts on top of 10 minute FTP work or 5 minute VO2 Max work. Makes it more race like to mix up your energy systems.
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Edit: Recovery ride HR is <68% of FTHR. For context, my FTHR is ~160 bpm (I'm 62, and it decreases as you age), and I keep my recovery rides in the ballpark of 100 bpm.
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Last edited by revchuck; 04-21-14 at 09:08 AM.
#9645
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#9646
Making a kilometer blurry
#9648
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Nope. Z1 is less than 55% of FTP. If you're riding slowly enough to feel guilty, you're probably in Z1. Z2 is your normal "just riding around" pace, 55-75% of FTP. For a recovery ride, you want to NOT create a training stress.
Edit: Recovery ride HR is <68% of FTHR. For context, my FTHR is ~160 bpm (I'm 62, and it decreases as you age), and I keep my recovery rides in the ballpark of 100 bpm.
Edit: Recovery ride HR is <68% of FTHR. For context, my FTHR is ~160 bpm (I'm 62, and it decreases as you age), and I keep my recovery rides in the ballpark of 100 bpm.
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Bike Ride Profile | The Adventures of Cross Boy Part 5: Recovery Time near Chagrin Falls | Times and Records | Strava
for example, this is a recovery ride
for example, this is a recovery ride
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Chagrin Falls? Say hello to Rocky and Bullwinkle for me.
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Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!