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Training Status??? (III)

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Training Status??? (III)

Old 03-18-15, 10:08 AM
  #15426  
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A moment later she dropped the kitty.


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Old 03-18-15, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
My leg has made a turn for the worse. The muscle has gotten really tight and sometimes when I cycle or stretch, it gets caught on bone and violently snaps back into place. Its not painful, and an odd sensation, but certainly something I shouldn't repeat. The area is in some pain, but not too bad. I'm not sure where that leaves me in regards to cycling, it snaps when I cycle (apexing on the up stroke), not much but enough I should probably stay off the bike until its resolved.

The fix is stretching and exercise. I sit 40 hours a week at work, probably 15 hours at home, and 10 on the bike, which is a lot of time for the hips to be in a shortened state. I was told several times this would happen if I didn't hit the gym and stretch, and now I'm paying for it.
Soo, I'm not a doctor, and I don't know the details about your situation, but I like talking about me and I've had snapping illopsoas and subsequent knee alignment issues in my left leg for a while now, probably due to a host of abnomalities, plus like you said, sitting forever- but, it doesn't keep me sidelined if I do even just a little maintenance. I've found stretching to be huge in managing it- talking like repeated 2-5 minute stretches, alternating legs to balance. Also myofascial release all over the legs and hips, especially along in the inside of the leg along the muscle/tendon.

Side note: I'm finding it a little scary that I've come to look forward to 12min Z4 3min rest x 4 sessions like the one I have later today. Must be the 1min+sprint's I do the day after and for 2-4 hours on the weekends
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Old 03-18-15, 10:19 AM
  #15428  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
A moment later she dropped the kitty.
#waifstrong
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Old 03-18-15, 10:21 AM
  #15429  
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2x20' at 100%. Not exactly comfortable but I wasn't exactly dying either. I think it's time for a retest.
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Old 03-18-15, 10:30 AM
  #15430  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Crits. Crits crits crits. Road races unfold at a slow enough that even tactical morons like me understand what's going on; crits often require split second understanding of and reaction to situations. Crits are a guaranteed 3-4 corners every couple of minutes so you are going to learn how to go around turns and you will have to get comfortable doing it. Crits require a much better understanding of your position in the field so you are able to conserve energy and also be able to respond to attacks that look promising.
Watching the USA Pro Challenge last year, it was very evident that Tommy Danielson should have raced more crits when he was coming up through the ranks. Absolute amateur racing tactics. There is more to bike racing than, "Me Tom. Me stomp pedals hard now."
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Old 03-18-15, 10:32 AM
  #15431  
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TLDR: crit >> hematocrit
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Old 03-18-15, 10:41 AM
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New all time best for 10min last week. 363w. It's been a rough stretch of weather here in VA, and the drivers here are godawful regardless of what is or isn't on the roads, so I've been forced onto the trainer quite a bit.

Result? Still a bit tubby at 148lbs. Watts per kilo are not sky high, but the watts are up, and the weight will come down. Hoping to hit 141lbs/64kg in June/July.
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Old 03-18-15, 10:43 AM
  #15433  
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every time someone talks about watching pro cycling I find my visceral reaction is amazement. push come to shove I'd rather watch the WWE.
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Old 03-18-15, 10:43 AM
  #15434  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
I don't think that's necessarily true. in a RR it's often hard to know what's a break with potential and what isn't. **** rolls up the road and for no reason you can figure the break is gone and the day is done. Sure if there's some decisive course feature it can bring clarity, but often in a long RR I've found myself scratching my head as to what unfolds.
flat RRs are garbage and rolls of the dice. 10 strongest guys can go up the road, get pulled back by 90 in the pack then a counter of random dudes go and it stays away. Else, come together with 75 of your best friends on 15'-wide of broken pavement and sprint it out. hope you're on the best lead-out train of the 4 sharing the road simultaneously.

Anyway, I hate them. A little terrain to sort the wheat from the chaff is much easier to read.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:02 AM
  #15435  
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3hrs with 5x5s at 6x5 pace. The wattage range I've been given indicates my coach is an optimist at heart as well as a sadist.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:06 AM
  #15436  
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An hour of the super hard stuff this morning. Then an hour of Z3 tempo this afternoon, because I was cranky and not really in the mood to listen today.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:09 AM
  #15437  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
5x5s at 6x5 pace
What does this mean?
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Old 03-18-15, 11:11 AM
  #15438  
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I should end the set feeling like I could do a 6th rep.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:26 AM
  #15439  
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Originally Posted by LMaster
My big question would be how best to go about racing my skills. My thoughts were continue to drill and practice cornering/descending whenever I can, while also getting out routinely to group rides. That said from a racing perspective my plan was to race primarily, but not exclusively, the hill climb road races as those are more fitness based and have less premium on bike handling and pack riding ability. Is this a good plan, or should I just get in there are race a ton of crits/road races to gain some experience?
You should divide your "pack riding skills" and "bike handling skills" into two parts.
1. Riding in a pack.
2. Understanding cornering and braking.

Pack

I'm a huge fan of slow speed drills. Bumping (side to side, possible on pavement) and touching wheels (front-back, must do on grass/dirt and expect to fall repeatedly so keep speeds at "I can run out this fall" or "it's okay if I land and stick to the grass" so like 8-12 mph). These are drills where you need a willing partner. You can't work on this solo. Well, maybe a little bit if you're on rollers and you shoulder or hip-check the wall, but that's about it.

I've had first year racers diligently do the Bethel Spring Series clinics then come back to me 2 months later saying how helpful those drills were in a recent (like earlier that day) race situation. I got to one race and heard one Bethel pupil, an M50+ Cat 5, lost a slew of spokes out of his Zipp 404 front wheel. I was thinking to myself, "Oh, man, he definitely hit the deck, you can't lose more than a spoke or two in a 404 before the wheel is unrideable. Heck, if I started losing spokes I'd be on the ground." I was imagining a broken, crumbled man, distraught wife wondering why he's doing this bike racing thing, etc.

Then I turn and it's the guy. I looked at him a bit suspiciously for bandages and stuff. None. He never hit the deck. He lost more than one or two spokes, exact count escapes me but it might have been 6 or 7 spokes so almost half the spokes in the wheel. He hung on, maintained balance, and put his foot down at the end of it all. He said the whole time he was recalling all the stuff I'd said at the clinic about drops, hanging on, etc. He reminds me of that every now and then when I see him at the races.

I say that in 3-4 hours of dedicated bike drills you'll be a more competent close quarters bike handler than 50% of a Cat 3 field around here and definitely one of the best pack handlers in a Cat 4 field. 3-4 hours means 4-5 times where you do a 45 minute easy ride bumping shoulders, practicing drafting closely, and, if you have the luxury of a field/lawn/etc, touching wheels.

Remove the touching wheels part and you reduce your fluency significantly. I'd say someone that "can't touch wheels" would be 70-80% of a Cat 3 field, 90+% of a Cat 4 field. I'm talking normal rub, like in a corner or something, not a swerve at 30 mph across the field kind of thing. I hit the deck in a situation like that and my bike was parallel to the ground before I realized the guy had actually moved so violently to the side.

So that's pack riding.

Bike Handling

Beyond that it's about cornering lines (like if you're cornering/descending solo or at the front or off the back) and some basic bike handling stuff like how to initiate avoidance maneuvers ("counter steer", i.e. push the right side drops to initiate a right side swerve), brake, and bunny hop (for bumps that you shouldn't be swerving for).

Cornering.

Sprinter della Casa: cornering lines
Sprinter della Casa: Tactics - Cornering
Key thing with cornering is that it is FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE. No training, no intervals, no nothing. EPO doesn't do crap for your cornering, you could be on all the steroids in the world but cornering is completely unrelated to that stuff. You corner like **** and you race like **** in a crit. You corner well and you'll be braking to avoid hitting the morons in front of you that can't corner to save their lives. If I couldn't corner I wouldn't be competitive at all in races.

You ALWAYS work on cornering. WHen you drive your car, push a shopping cart, when you're in rush hour traffic, when you take an exit ramp, any time you're not traveling in a straight line you should be thinking of cornering lines. There is absolutely zero excuse for not understanding cornering because it is not a bike specific thing, it's a life transportation thing.

Countersteering - you just have to try it at slower speeds. Do it a few times when you're riding solo, try to get into the habit of making that conscious push when you're doing a rapid maneuver. I don't do it naturally, like in a panic I don't do it, but that's because I don't practice it (I ride outside less frequently than most) and I learned about it only a few years ago.

Braking. This guy linked below is a bit wacky sometimes but his braking and rolling resistance stuff (on rough terrain) I think are pertinent. I'm a huge believer in braking from the drops for power, control, and predictability. I've been next to a really good bike handler on the hoods when he hit the deck because he could neither turn or brake enough to avoid the guy in front of him. That same rider won (Jr) cross nationals later that year, crit nationals in a bike throw the next season, and has I think 5 national titles to his name at this point as well as a neo-pro contract - it's not like he doesn't know how to handle his bike, it's just that if you are using the bike incorrectly it's hard to use it to the max. So anyway this is a much better written/researched thing on braking than I'd ever do.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/...-on-a-bicycle/

With well honed habits I can hang with an FTP in the 210-220w range, at my best. At 220w FTP and typically 1200-1300w peak power I upgraded to Cat 2 in 2010 (and then promptly downgraded after a year "sans" in 2011. The good year, 2010, I won or got second in races averaging about 185-190w@72kg, so about 3 w/kg, even with massive efforts sprinkled in here and there. In 2014, at more like 200w FTP at times 82 kg, very little training, I won a number of field sprints in Cat 3-4 and M45 races. I could do that because I can corner and I can ride in close quarters to other riders.

This is my favorite 2010 race. Avg wattage 187w. Peak power was only 1200w, but I think I did 1100w for the long sprint. My leadout guy Cliff did 100w avg more than me; I later learned he used to race pro for K2/Proflex mtb. Obviously he did a lot of work in the race.

Just don't ignore the basics of bike handling and pack handling and with your weight/power you should be flying. Hell, if I could increase my w/kg by 30-40% I'd be rocking all day long.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:36 AM
  #15440  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
flat RRs are garbage and rolls of the dice. 10 strongest guys can go up the road, get pulled back by 90 in the pack then a counter of random dudes go and it stays away. Else, come together with 75 of your best friends on 15'-wide of broken pavement and sprint it out. hope you're on the best lead-out train of the 4 sharing the road simultaneously.

Anyway, I hate them. A little terrain to sort the wheat from the chaff is much easier to read.
Please.

As soon as you win a flat RR you'll love them!
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Old 03-18-15, 11:38 AM
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Holy **** ^^

tl:dr - racing crits and road races outside your comfort zone is the best way to expand your comfort zone.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Please.

As soon as you win a flat RR you'll love them!
I already did at Knight's Ferry and I still recognize that they suck!
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Old 03-18-15, 11:41 AM
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new jersey RRs are almost all down south and dead flat. 3 hour drive for what's essentially a really long crit. On the other hand I got shelled in a hilly RR last year in the first selection on the climb.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:50 AM
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Flat RR's are nice, they're like motorpacing.
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Old 03-18-15, 12:05 PM
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If you can't do flat RR's, don't go to Modesto.
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Old 03-18-15, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
If you can't do flat RR's, don't go to Modesto.
Flat & windy at that.

Love Modesto rr.

It was plenty selective last year; about 20 of us got away from the other 40 on the first tailwind section. Never pedaled that hard/fast in my life!
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Old 03-18-15, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I already did at Knight's Ferry and I still recognize that they suck!
This is true.
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Old 03-18-15, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
new jersey RRs are almost all down south and dead flat. 3 hour drive for what's essentially a really long crit. On the other hand I got shelled in a hilly RR last year in the first selection on the climb.
have you ever done blueberry bicicletta? could not be a more boring course if they tried.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:00 PM
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They're all the same mostly I think. I won't contest the stare series any longer because I can't justify the drive down to those included RRs.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
You should divide your "pack riding skills" and "bike handling skills" into two parts.
1. Riding in a pack.
2. Understanding cornering and braking.

Pack

I'm a huge fan of slow speed drills. Bumping (side to side, possible on pavement) and touching wheels (front-back, must do on grass/dirt and expect to fall repeatedly so keep speeds at "I can run out this fall" or "it's okay if I land and stick to the grass" so like 8-12 mph). These are drills where you need a willing partner. You can't work on this solo. Well, maybe a little bit if you're on rollers and you shoulder or hip-check the wall, but that's about it.

I've had first year racers diligently do the Bethel Spring Series clinics then come back to me 2 months later saying how helpful those drills were in a recent (like earlier that day) race situation. I got to one race and heard one Bethel pupil, an M50+ Cat 5, lost a slew of spokes out of his Zipp 404 front wheel. I was thinking to myself, "Oh, man, he definitely hit the deck, you can't lose more than a spoke or two in a 404 before the wheel is unrideable. Heck, if I started losing spokes I'd be on the ground." I was imagining a broken, crumbled man, distraught wife wondering why he's doing this bike racing thing, etc.

Then I turn and it's the guy. I looked at him a bit suspiciously for bandages and stuff. None. He never hit the deck. He lost more than one or two spokes, exact count escapes me but it might have been 6 or 7 spokes so almost half the spokes in the wheel. He hung on, maintained balance, and put his foot down at the end of it all. He said the whole time he was recalling all the stuff I'd said at the clinic about drops, hanging on, etc. He reminds me of that every now and then when I see him at the races.

I say that in 3-4 hours of dedicated bike drills you'll be a more competent close quarters bike handler than 50% of a Cat 3 field around here and definitely one of the best pack handlers in a Cat 4 field. 3-4 hours means 4-5 times where you do a 45 minute easy ride bumping shoulders, practicing drafting closely, and, if you have the luxury of a field/lawn/etc, touching wheels.

Remove the touching wheels part and you reduce your fluency significantly. I'd say someone that "can't touch wheels" would be 70-80% of a Cat 3 field, 90+% of a Cat 4 field. I'm talking normal rub, like in a corner or something, not a swerve at 30 mph across the field kind of thing. I hit the deck in a situation like that and my bike was parallel to the ground before I realized the guy had actually moved so violently to the side.

So that's pack riding.

Bike Handling

Beyond that it's about cornering lines (like if you're cornering/descending solo or at the front or off the back) and some basic bike handling stuff like how to initiate avoidance maneuvers ("counter steer", i.e. push the right side drops to initiate a right side swerve), brake, and bunny hop (for bumps that you shouldn't be swerving for).

Cornering.

Sprinter della Casa: cornering lines
Sprinter della Casa: Tactics - Cornering
Key thing with cornering is that it is FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE. No training, no intervals, no nothing. EPO doesn't do crap for your cornering, you could be on all the steroids in the world but cornering is completely unrelated to that stuff. You corner like **** and you race like **** in a crit. You corner well and you'll be braking to avoid hitting the morons in front of you that can't corner to save their lives. If I couldn't corner I wouldn't be competitive at all in races.

You ALWAYS work on cornering. WHen you drive your car, push a shopping cart, when you're in rush hour traffic, when you take an exit ramp, any time you're not traveling in a straight line you should be thinking of cornering lines. There is absolutely zero excuse for not understanding cornering because it is not a bike specific thing, it's a life transportation thing.

Countersteering - you just have to try it at slower speeds. Do it a few times when you're riding solo, try to get into the habit of making that conscious push when you're doing a rapid maneuver. I don't do it naturally, like in a panic I don't do it, but that's because I don't practice it (I ride outside less frequently than most) and I learned about it only a few years ago.

Braking. This guy linked below is a bit wacky sometimes but his braking and rolling resistance stuff (on rough terrain) I think are pertinent. I'm a huge believer in braking from the drops for power, control, and predictability. I've been next to a really good bike handler on the hoods when he hit the deck because he could neither turn or brake enough to avoid the guy in front of him. That same rider won (Jr) cross nationals later that year, crit nationals in a bike throw the next season, and has I think 5 national titles to his name at this point as well as a neo-pro contract - it's not like he doesn't know how to handle his bike, it's just that if you are using the bike incorrectly it's hard to use it to the max. So anyway this is a much better written/researched thing on braking than I'd ever do.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/...-on-a-bicycle/

With well honed habits I can hang with an FTP in the 210-220w range, at my best. At 220w FTP and typically 1200-1300w peak power I upgraded to Cat 2 in 2010 (and then promptly downgraded after a year "sans" in 2011. The good year, 2010, I won or got second in races averaging about 185-190w@72kg, so about 3 w/kg, even with massive efforts sprinkled in here and there. In 2014, at more like 200w FTP at times 82 kg, very little training, I won a number of field sprints in Cat 3-4 and M45 races. I could do that because I can corner and I can ride in close quarters to other riders.

This is my favorite 2010 race. Avg wattage 187w. Peak power was only 1200w, but I think I did 1100w for the long sprint. My leadout guy Cliff did 100w avg more than me; I later learned he used to race pro for K2/Proflex mtb. Obviously he did a lot of work in the race.

Just don't ignore the basics of bike handling and pack handling and with your weight/power you should be flying. Hell, if I could increase my w/kg by 30-40% I'd be rocking all day long.
Thanks for the thoughts. Anything in particular I should be focusing on when doing the bumping drills, or is it just getting a feel for what contact is like and how to react/not over-react to the situation? When you say wheels touching do you mean bumping another rides back wheel with your front and vice versa, a side to side wheel bump, or both?

As for general cornering/descending I think much of my issue is related to timidity. I *think* I see lines through corners okay, and tend to drive trying to apex within my lane (or the whole road if it happens to be clear). What I have trouble with is judging the right speed, and knowing how far I can lean the turn. I'll frequently see a line, notice a rider follows a similar line to what I had seen...but if I go to follow I freak out and think in my head that I'll just wipe out if I try to turn that quick. Similar issue with descending, it seems like on steeper switchbacks you end up having to progressively increase the degree to which you are turning as you pick up speed, something that I have a hard time with.

Any tips regarding that, or is it more of a "just gotta try it and see what happens kind of thing" to get a feel for what is too aggressive of a turn and building up the confidence to take faster/tighter lines?
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