shovelhd

A lot of people would be very disappointed in that number.

carpediemracing 

I get smoked on the climbs. I could be 40 pounds lighter and I'd probably still get smoked on the climbs. I got smoked on the climbs when I was 60 lbs lighter. Took me about 10 years (of non-powermeter era) to accept that I won't ever be a good climber.

Granted, I think I'd be healthier if I was 15% body fat, and realistically I'd be a better rider. However I'm not fooling myself in thinking that I'd somehow manage to get into some good w/kg world.

happybday29475

fwiw, I don't believe this. I'd also venture a guess that many others on this BB don't either.

I am n=1 that anybody can do it. I am not a natural endurance athlete, but with a lot of expertly guided hard work over several years, and simultaneously learning how to eat better, I now have a w/kg that was unimaginable a short while ago (to me; I'm sure not to many of you).

I am confident that most could, for instance, become competitive in a cat 3 RR over rolling hills, if the time and effort are put in. (I note that I likely couldn't do it without being coached; learning how to train has been part of my learning curve.)

As an aside, it seems to me that at any given level, there are those in BF land that work very hard to be there, and there are those that maybe don't work quite as hard, but apparently have a bit more natural talent.

TheKillerPenguin

@Ygduf, I think I'm doing it right.

Ygduf

these are from three races, road, crit and circuit. won the field behind the break, was 4th, 5th.

seems like you did well, now you just have to get more comfortable up there and pick off a few more riders and you can settle into a life of satisfying 4th and 5th place finishes. Or figure out a way to win, in which case please let me know.

TheKillerPenguin

Affirmative, I do believe you have helped me find my niche.

Hermes

Here you go for six pack abs the easy way. UCI legal.

mattm

Rode around for an hour or so, did some opener/sprint thingies.

Duke of Kent

Might be worthy of its own thread, but thought I'd ask here before posting.

Spending the summer at ~6,000ft. Previous FTP 325w (at 2000ft), maybe slightly higher. At altitude, and only going up from here, it's ~300w. Various studies and online calculators agree with this, namely: Cycling Power Lab

If I adjust my training zones based off of my new FTP at this altitude, am I actually going to get...weaker? I mean, I'll have the same TSS, in theory, for any given workout (if FTP is adjusted properly), but I won't be doing the same amount of work.

Can anyone lend any insight? Is this where that ol' "Sleep high, train low" thing comes from?

mattm

Speaking of elevation, I don't know the answer - but I am racing at 5k feet of elevation tomorrow! Plan is to get there day-of and hope I don't feel too s****y.

happybday29475

Yep - you have it exactly.

Altitude changes the blood, so it can carry more oxygen when you go back to sea level...but at altitude you are, in fact, capable of less work because you can get less oxygen into your blood stream, so yes, you can't train as hard. That's exactly the explanation for "sleep high, train low".

Here in Boulder a good setup is to live in Nederland at 7500' but come down to Boulder at 5,000' to train - it's only a 25 minute drive.

Also, you don't train in an oxygen tent...but you do sleep in one.

And, as a rough guess, at 6,000' your ewang will be ~10% lower. Loosely, figure 2-3% per 1,000' of altitude at altitudes around 5,000'...the percentage is less when nearer sea level.

The fun comes when you go back to sea level...

PS - I admittedly don't have deep understanding of this, I'm just relaying the common wisdom around Boulder.

PPS - reticulyte life span is ~30 days, so that's how long it takes your blood to completely adapt to a new altitude.

aaronmcd

Did the Stahl Ride Saturday edition today (usually a Wednesday, but work gets in the way). 65 miles, 5000 feet. Mostly easy, first climb Tempo. Last climb I hit the lower steep portion (before the regroup) hard and crushed my PR. Old time 16:52, new time 16:00. Pretty happy with that. Crit in the morning.

spectastic

maybe you can simulate the michael phelps sleeping apparatus by sticking a continuous stream of an inert gas, like say.. argon, nitrogen, carbon monoxide into your room to displace some of the oxygen. I would hazard a guess that 15% would simulate the alps, and 7% would simulate mount everest

spectastic

I hope those are photoshop and not implants, or even worse... ALIENS

Enthalpic

His concerns are about the negative effects of altitude, not a desire for more of it. If anything doing intervals on a trainer using supplementary oxygen would be what he wants.

Just FYI carbon monoxide is poisonous and breathing argon is prohibited by WADA.

spectastic

It's a joke

Wait for real they banned argon? I guess I'll have to use helium from now on

bbbean 

Think today will be a rest day.

revchuck 

Ouch!

globecanvas

No, you won't get weaker. You need to adjust your training zones, because you won't be able to hit your low-altitude numbers. You'll be creating the same amount of physiological stress and adaptation using the lower numbers.

If by the end of the summer you get your high-altitude FTP up to 325w, then you'll be jamming along at 350w when you get back down to low altitude.

TheKillerPenguin

I'm most amazed by the road rash between the eyes. Like how does that even happen? Do you even browridge?

Heal quick.

bbbean 

i wish someone had it on video. I did a full blown face plant, but the rest is a bit of a mystery. Extra frustrating because I was at mile 77 of a century with a tailwind to the finish line and was on track to set a PR.

Oh well, feeling a little better. May ride a few miles just to be sure everything works. Next race not til Aug 1, so there's time to take it easy.

BB

Hermes

The best approach is to show up the day of the race which you are doing. Each hour at elevation gets worse for 3 days and then slow acclimation begins. However, even at 5000 feet you may not have the capability to hit and recover. Once anaerobic at altitude, the recovery is slower. This will be the same for everyone coming from sea level. The guys who are acclimated for altitude will do better. And the response to altitude, like endurance sports, is genetically driven. You may not feel much impact to it sucks. Good luck

Hermes

It will probably not quite work the way you think. At altitude, there are genetic expressions that trigger and typically, hematocrit and red blood cell count increase. There are corresponding losses in muscle mass and VO2 throughput capability. So when athletes return to sea level, they cannot process as much oxygen.

The fix to this is live high and train low - think Tenerife. Low altitude training maintains the VO2 capability and muscle mass while the 18 hours plus of high altitude living plus lower intensity training induces the other effects.

And not all athletes respond the same with some doing much worse at altitude and getting no bump in fitness at sea level.

The other aspect of altitude is that recovery is much harder due to less oxygen. Some use oxygen generators to facilitate recovery.

TheKillerPenguin

I know a guy that used to sleep in an altitude tent. FWIW he no longer races, I would wager the hit to his sex life was bigger than the bump in ftp.

Wesley36

For the first time this season, went out today to do VO2Max hill climb intervals. Instead of the standard 5 (or 6) x 5 min w/ 5 min recoveries, I went with 6 x 4 min @ z5. I really like these intervals, but I also dread them. Especially the first time of the season.
As it turns out, the day went very well. I did 6 intervals, and every single one was within 2 W (!) of 120% of FTP, or higher. Next time I do them I should definitely be doing 5 min work intervals.
Of course, the key is to be able to maintain a sense of equinimity in training, since there will always be days when one is a bit stronger or a bit weaker, but still, it is easier to enjoy days like these.