Phonak Reinstated on Pro Tour by Euro Sport Court
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Originally Posted by KingRene
from cyclingnews:
"However, it is indisputable that, for the Phonak team, the year 2004 was marked by blood tests with average high values, a confirmed doping case and two cases of adverse analytical findings."
agence france presse:
"The two remain the only athletes who have ever tested positive for homologous blood doping."
Laggard:
"The question now is how seriously Phonak will be taken."
For the sake of the continued support of the other sponsors, let's hope they are on a ridiculously short leash.
"However, it is indisputable that, for the Phonak team, the year 2004 was marked by blood tests with average high values, a confirmed doping case and two cases of adverse analytical findings."
agence france presse:
"The two remain the only athletes who have ever tested positive for homologous blood doping."
Laggard:
"The question now is how seriously Phonak will be taken."
For the sake of the continued support of the other sponsors, let's hope they are on a ridiculously short leash.
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Originally Posted by ChiefCatchacold
Geeez, they should create a negativity forum for some of you folks.
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Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
This team is to cycling what Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa are to baseball. The owner of Balco said "Doping is not cheating because everyone who is winning is doping". The fact that dopers in ANY sport are not in jail cells seems to suggest he is correct. The "clean" athletes must be the "dopes".
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Originally Posted by Devil
Floyd is overrated. Extremely.
Oh, and good news for Phonak.
Oh, and good news for Phonak.
Being old enough to remember going to big bike races in Europe and there being no Americans and an American riding in the European pro peloton a pipedream, whether or not he is "overrated" and not team leader material, that is up to him to determine...all I'll say is, having followed and participated in this sport since the 60's, to have the number of Americans over there riding and to have them getting the chance to lead a team, I think that's pretty cool.
I suspect that the folks that really know talent, whose jobs depend of their making good rider selection decisions, might disagree with you.
And anybody who wears a leader's jersey, even for one day in a grand tour event, in my mind cannot be overrated.
Just my opinion....
#31
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Originally Posted by meb
Sosa doping?
Back to cycling. Don't expect much out of Phonak this year.
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
And anybody who wears a leader's jersey, even for one day in a grand tour event, in my mind cannot be overrated.
Just my opinion....
Just my opinion....
I don't have a problem with Floyd. I think he is a good rider on a great team. However, everyone is treating him like the new golden boy of American cycling. He isn't. He's almost (if he isn't already) 30 years old, I really don't think he has it in him to win a Grand Tour - especially now with the Pro Tour where all of the really good teams are forced to participate in the Giro and the Vuelta.
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Originally Posted by Devil
So you think it's okay to say that an Alessandro Petacchi, in a TdF yellow jersey, can be rated so highly that most will agree it's inevitable that he'll win the Tour? I like the way you think. Petacchi is my pick for overall victory in the Tour this year.
wow, way to really read into someones' comment.
i liked the phonak team last year: i thought it was great in that team time trial (musta been the tour) where they finished so well despite breaking a few handlebars and tires and droping a few riders. something else i like about them is the bikes they ride. seems like the company (bmc, i think?) is willing to take some chances on design. hopefully the good design elements trickle down to the more affordable frames in the near future.
Last edited by hair07; 02-02-05 at 06:55 AM.
#34
Maglia Ciclamino
No one is hoping Landis falls off his bike. I hope he does well, but like Devil and others have noted, he's not a good bet as a GC winner. Then again, neither is Thomas Voekler or Vladimir Karpets (yet), and a lot of folks jumped on those bandwagons last year.
The real question is: does Phonak deserve its spot in the ProTour now that they've essentially been nuked and reconstituted? Are there other teams that might show more promise? I sincerely don't know as my knowledge of continental teams and lesser knowns is limited. Just wondering.
The real question is: does Phonak deserve its spot in the ProTour now that they've essentially been nuked and reconstituted? Are there other teams that might show more promise? I sincerely don't know as my knowledge of continental teams and lesser knowns is limited. Just wondering.
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Originally Posted by gcasillo
No one is hoping Landis falls off his bike. I hope he does well, but like Devil and others have noted, he's not a good bet as a GC winner. Then again, neither is Thomas Voekler or Vladimir Karpets (yet), and a lot of folks jumped on those bandwagons last year.
The real question is: does Phonak deserve its spot in the ProTour now that they've essentially been nuked and reconstituted? Are there other teams that might show more promise? I sincerely don't know as my knowledge of continental teams and lesser knowns is limited. Just wondering.
The real question is: does Phonak deserve its spot in the ProTour now that they've essentially been nuked and reconstituted? Are there other teams that might show more promise? I sincerely don't know as my knowledge of continental teams and lesser knowns is limited. Just wondering.
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
Considering the year that Phonak had the UCI should have given that spot to Ag2r. But then again Cofidas should have been excluded also as their problems were just as bad.
About Floyd: He's a talented rider. I'm not sure he's as talented as people want to believe he is. There are people though who anytime they see an American do something like lead Armstrong up a climb will then see this rider as one of the peloton's super-elite riders who is deserving of his own team. Because they are so focused on American riders they lose perspective on the talent levels of their guy verses the rest of the peloton.
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Name three guys on the Phonak team that could support Landis in the mountains.
Hell... for that matter, name anybody else on that team.
And I tell ya, if Ag2R's Nazon, Flickinger et al don't get a wild card pick... I'll be bummed.
Hell... for that matter, name anybody else on that team.
And I tell ya, if Ag2R's Nazon, Flickinger et al don't get a wild card pick... I'll be bummed.
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Originally Posted by girl27
Name three guys on the Phonak team that could support Landis in the mountains.
Hell... for that matter, name anybody else on that team.
Flickinger is just another big stud who will win a race every other year or so.
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Originally Posted by Laggard
Excellent point. I felt the same way about AG2R.
About Floyd: He's a talented rider. I'm not sure he's as talented as people want to believe he is. There are people though who anytime they see an American do something like lead Armstrong up a climb will then see this rider as one of the peloton's super-elite riders who is deserving of his own team. Because they are so focused on American riders they lose perspective on the talent levels of their guy verses the rest of the peloton.
About Floyd: He's a talented rider. I'm not sure he's as talented as people want to believe he is. There are people though who anytime they see an American do something like lead Armstrong up a climb will then see this rider as one of the peloton's super-elite riders who is deserving of his own team. Because they are so focused on American riders they lose perspective on the talent levels of their guy verses the rest of the peloton.
Regardless the biggest problem the UCI has, aside from the rift with the major tour organizers, is it's inconsistancy in meeting out punishment. The Cofidas doping scandal was second only to Festina's and yet they were allowed into the ProTour with out any problems. Before the UCI can make any head way into cleaning up this sport it needs to deliver it's punishment equally accross the board.
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
I agree that fans tend to do this but you have to think that the "powers that be" at Phonak would know better.
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Originally Posted by girl27
Meh. Still.
But I don't really think Phonak has a clear leader for the GT's on their team. Landis hasn't really proven anything to me other than that he is better at time trialing now, which is very important, and he can have a good day or so in the mtns. His performance in the Vuelta last year was a bit anticlimatic. At his age, I'm not projecting huge gains, but ya never know. It's been done before.
The riders on Phonak all have the opportunity of a lifetime to emerge and lead. Who will do it remains to be seen.
Last edited by don d.; 02-02-05 at 09:37 AM.
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Leipheimer was their podium investment. And we all know how well that worked out.
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
That wasn't entirely Levi's fault.
Originally Posted by 2Rodies
... the way they let Michael Rathmussen attack in the mountains. Rather than keep him back to support Levi they turned him loose.
Originally Posted by 2Rodies
In my mind it's not just Lance that wins the TdF it's the fact that his team does absolutely nothing else but ride for him. There is no other team in professional cycling that does that. No other team is willing to risk their entire tour on one rider in an "all or nothing" assault on the race.
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The truth about Floyd is yet to be determined....were his responsibilities on Postal a gift or a liability in how they effected his results. He has potential ...has shown the ability to TT and climb. Perhaps some have jumped on his "Band Wagon" too early or maybe they just got it right...2 years and then we will have a much better idea.
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The Anti-americanism in cycling parallels similar circumstances surrounding motor racing in the 60s. Back then, drivers would dominate their field in various different races. Short course and endurance races would highlight big names just like the Tours and one-day classics. Then FORD stepped in with an organized factory effort. There was teamwork which focused stategy on getting to the top. The Shelby Cobras gradually began winning and finally the Ford GT40s dominated the endurance races.
How does this relate to cycling? Because its the same criticism and the same attitude against americans different approach to racing. Today however, every team uses the same methodology pioneered by FORD back in the 60s. The ProTour in cycling is very similar to the F-1 format of race organization. I believe the USPS domination will be emulated by more teams as the racing calendar is shaped by the commercial prospects of the new format. It was good for motorsports in the 60s and I am remaining optimistic, it will do the same for cycling.
How does this relate to cycling? Because its the same criticism and the same attitude against americans different approach to racing. Today however, every team uses the same methodology pioneered by FORD back in the 60s. The ProTour in cycling is very similar to the F-1 format of race organization. I believe the USPS domination will be emulated by more teams as the racing calendar is shaped by the commercial prospects of the new format. It was good for motorsports in the 60s and I am remaining optimistic, it will do the same for cycling.
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Originally Posted by squeegy200
The Anti-americanism in cycling [...]
Originally Posted by squeegy200
[...]its the same criticism and the same attitude against americans different approach to racing [...]
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Originally Posted by jkoman
The truth about Floyd is yet to be determined....were his responsibilities on Postal a gift or a liability in how they effected his results. He has potential ...has shown the ability to TT and climb. Perhaps some have jumped on his "Band Wagon" too early or maybe they just got it right...2 years and then we will have a much better idea.
Looking at the Landis of now vs the Landis of 1999 he's a totally different cyclist.
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Originally Posted by WildBill
[...] IMO he should of stayed with Armstrong after everything that was done for him. I think he owes alot to Lance for his effort to make him not only a better domestique but all around more conscientious cyclist. His road career could of gone drastically awry if Lance hadn't taken him under his wing.
BTW, Armstrong also 'owes' Landis for his services as a domestique. IMHO it's hard to visualise Armstrong going out of his way for the benefit of another rider, especially outside the context of the racing itself. My guess is that you are overrating his contribution to the development of Landis. Did they train together (except for the occasional USPS training camp)? For all I know, Armstrong's teammates hardly get to see him 'out of competition'. But you may call that 'anti-American'.
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Originally Posted by Devil
So you think it's okay to say that an Alessandro Petacchi, in a TdF yellow jersey, can be rated so highly that most will agree it's inevitable that he'll win the Tour? I like the way you think. Petacchi is my pick for overall victory in the Tour this year.
Originally Posted by Devil
everyone is treating him like the new golden boy of American cycling. He isn't.
Ok, so maybe it wasn't a response to my post, just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing his name. You can be a fan of someone without expecting them to win the biggest races. Fans of Bob Roll... bandwagoners all. Steve Tilford.. overrated.