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Old 02-11-13, 08:47 AM   #76
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First weekend of the Greenville Spring Training Series in South Carolina was this weekend. Saturday - Cat 3 - 50mi RR (7 lap circuit) - Finished ~20/~60 - I think everyone was scared to open their legs up after a long winter. Slow slow race. Didn't have any big teams really, so no one was doing work at the front. Everyone just kind of sat up when they hit the front, causing lots of bunching for most of the race at a slow pace. I was pretty much the only one to attack consistently, though a few other attacks went during the race too. I got some gaps, but most of the time I was by myself or just with one other person. These were doomed since everyone was super fresh because of soft spinning most of this race. In the end, we soft pedaled the last 5k, causing a huge bunch up and everyone thinking they can win the race. Of course there was no lead out, and everyone just started sprinting at 300m. This caused a huge wreck (or two) and took out at least 15 guys. I saw it coming because of our slow pace, so was on the outside and missed most of the carnage (though I did get a helmet in the gut as a guy was falling next to me, but I stayed up). Rolled in somewhere in the top 20. Sunday - Cat 3 - 50mi RR (7 lap circuit) - Finished 5/~60 - Same course as Saturday, same distance, etc. Basically was deja vu. Except this race went completely different. There were attacks from the gun, and the pace was pretty legit. I didn't attack much today, more of following attacks as they went if I felt like they were solid. On the second lap a solid group of 5 guys got off the front in an attack I missed. I kept an eye on them and mentally said to myself if they stayed away for more than a quarter of a lap I gotta get up there. Sure enough, they were staying away. We hit a little climb, and the group started attacking. I followed some attacks, and a group of 10 of us or so splintered off from the peloton. Took us about half a lap and then we met up with the original break of 5. After some slight confusion and hesitation, we started working together. We weren't fluid, but for the most part we were working OK together. We had a couple stragglers on the back (happens with that size breakaway), but we were able to drop a few. We gained about 15-30 secs a lap, and by the last lap we had about a 2 min lead over the peloton. The last lap people started wanting to play some cat and mouse in a serious way. Me and a group of about 3 guys were the only ones willing to hold us together for the most part. I knew we had a decent lead, but that could drop in a serious hurry on the last lap if we started messing around at 15mph. A couple of guys solo'd off the front on the last lap when we were playing cat and mouse, but we wrung them in once we got organized a bit again. One guy did a huge attack from about 3km, and he is super strong so I thought he'd stay away. Unfortunately for him, we caught him at about 200m to go. We had a pretty solid sprint, I got kind of caught out of the draft in a bad position, but I was able to sprint in for 5th! 256w avg/290w np for ~2hrs. Ouch.
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Old 02-11-13, 08:50 AM   #77
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First weekend of the Greenville Spring Training Series in South Carolina was this weekend.

Saturday - Cat 3 - 50mi RR (7 lap circuit) - Finished ~20/~60
- I think everyone was scared to open their legs up after a long winter. Slow slow race. Didn't have any big teams really, so no one was doing work at the front. Everyone just kind of sat up when they hit the front, causing lots of bunching for most of the race at a slow pace. I was pretty much the only one to attack consistently, though a few other attacks went during the race too. I got some gaps, but most of the time I was by myself or just with one other person. These were doomed since everyone was super fresh because of soft spinning most of this race. In the end, we soft pedaled the last 5k, causing a huge bunch up and everyone thinking they can win the race. Of course there was no lead out, and everyone just started sprinting at 300m. This caused a huge wreck (or two) and took out at least 15 guys. I saw it coming because of our slow pace, so was on the outside and missed most of the carnage (though I did get a helmet in the gut as a guy was falling next to me, but I stayed up). Rolled in somewhere in the top 20.

Sunday - Cat 3 - 50mi RR (7 lap circuit) - Finished 5/~60
- Same course as Saturday, same distance, etc. Basically was deja vu. Except this race went completely different. There were attacks from the gun, and the pace was pretty legit. I didn't attack much today, more of following attacks as they went if I felt like they were solid. On the second lap a solid group of 5 guys got off the front in an attack I missed. I kept an eye on them and mentally said to myself if they stayed away for more than a quarter of a lap I gotta get up there. Sure enough, they were staying away. We hit a little climb, and the group started attacking. I followed some attacks, and a group of 10 of us or so splintered off from the peloton.

Took us about half a lap and then we met up with the original break of 5. After some slight confusion and hesitation, we started working together. We weren't fluid, but for the most part we were working OK together. We had a couple stragglers on the back (happens with that size breakaway), but we were able to drop a few. We gained about 15-30 secs a lap, and by the last lap we had about a 2 min lead over the peloton.

The last lap people started wanting to play some cat and mouse in a serious way. Me and a group of about 3 guys were the only ones willing to hold us together for the most part. I knew we had a decent lead, but that could drop in a serious hurry on the last lap if we started messing around at 15mph. A couple of guys solo'd off the front on the last lap when we were playing cat and mouse, but we wrung them in once we got organized a bit again. One guy did a huge attack from about 3km, and he is super strong so I thought he'd stay away. Unfortunately for him, we caught him at about 200m to go. We had a pretty solid sprint, I got kind of caught out of the draft in a bad position, but I was able to sprint in for 5th! 256w avg/290w np for ~2hrs. Ouch.
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Old 02-11-13, 09:05 AM   #78
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First weekend of the Greenville Spring Training Series in South Carolina was this weekend.
Legit dude. Congrats!

I raced the Rocky Hill Ranch XC Mtb race. Cat 2 19-29. About 25 of us in the group I think. From the gun we were on a jeep trail for about a half mile before singletrack. I gunned it and went into the singletrack with the dude who won the Marathon Mtb series this winter. It was just the two of us from then on. Lots and lots of passing the groups ahead of us - that alone is worth upgrading to a 1 in my mind.

At about mile 10 of 16, the other dude hit a branch and went down. I drilled it, to try and go for the win. Another mile later, he caught me and absolutely blew by me to take the W. I kept the pace up and came in 2 minutes later - and only 30 seconds ahead of 3rd. Good for 2nd. I'm not sure the upgrade rules, but that's got to be some points.
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Old 02-11-13, 09:51 AM   #79
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Nice work Creatre and jb. Sounds like a good weekend.
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Old 02-11-13, 10:27 AM   #80
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Good job Creatre. Spent a bunch of time on the phone this morning with my young teammate who had an awesome weekend as well in in P/1/2 field though the P/1/2 field was pretty stacked.

Told you this year would be a good one.
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Old 02-11-13, 10:57 AM   #81
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First weekend of the Greenville Spring Training Series in South Carolina was this weekend.
I was in both races. On saturday once I got bumped into the grass and lost 30 spots in 10 seconds, I could never move back up. Glad i didn't. I rolled in super easy right behind all the carnage. 3 separated shoulders/broken collar bones, 1 concussion, one pretty badly damaged hand (spokes) and a whole whole lot of road rash.

On sunday, I was in that break. That was one of the worst working breaks I've ever been in but we made it. Sadly I had a much harder race than everyone else apparently and didn't have any gas for a sprint. I had 270W AP and 340NP for 1.5 hours (total time in the break).

For the record the eventual winner was one of the "stragglers" who repeatedly told me he couldn't pull through and was barely hanging on. I didn't know it but he'd also won the day before. Methinks in the next race I will personally punch his ticket.
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Old 02-11-13, 11:00 AM   #82
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I was in both races. On saturday once I got bumped into the grass and lost 30 spots in 10 seconds, I could never move back up. Glad i didn't. I rolled in super easy right behind all the carnage. 3 separated shoulders/broken collar bones, 1 concussion, one pretty badly damaged hand (spokes) and a whole whole lot of road rash.

On sunday, I was in that break. That was one of the worst working breaks I've ever been in but we made it. Sadly I had a much harder race than everyone else apparently and didn't have any gas for a sprint. I had 270W AP and 340NP for 1.5 hours (total time in the break).

For the record the eventual winner was one of the "stragglers" who repeatedly told me he couldn't pull through and was barely hanging on. I didn't know it but he'd also won the day before. Methinks in the next race I will personally punch his ticket.
Ah go figure. Nothing we could really do though about that guy if he was strong. I certainly wasn't going to sit back there with him when I know my only shot at a result is through a breakaway.

Yeah we were a cluster a lot of the time in the break, but it's not the worst I've ever been in. It's hard to get organization when there are so many people and some people aren't willing to work. Just part of the game!
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Old 02-11-13, 11:01 AM   #83
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Just remember that true sprinters may not be pulling your chain, they may be at the limit just hanging onto the break. It's up to you how hard you want to work to get rid of him.
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Old 02-11-13, 11:16 AM   #84
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Just remember that true sprinters may not be pulling your chain, they may be at the limit just hanging onto the break. It's up to you how hard you want to work to get rid of him.
As I am 'retired' again let me give you a little insight into a true sprinter.
I am very focused, can tt really well, can drive pace like no other etc but really 'hurts' me and takes away the sting of a sprint is not a team or riders driving an unrelenting pace that I can deal with without concern it is the constant acceleration/deceleration that really wears me out. As I am a bigger rider it is that constant outlay of power that hurts. Those of you that saw my Facebook post in August saw that I can go over 1,000 watts a whole bunch of times but it takes its toll.
You want to hurt a dedicated sprinter? Get him to accel/decel a lot.
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Old 02-11-13, 11:22 AM   #85
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As I am 'retired' again let me give you a little insight into a true sprinter.
I am very focused, can tt really well, can drive pace like no other etc but really 'hurts' me and takes away the sting of a sprint is not a team or riders driving an unrelenting pace that I can deal with without concern it is the constant acceleration/deceleration that really wears me out. As I am a bigger rider it is that constant outlay of power that hurts. Those of you that saw my Facebook post in August saw that I can go over 1,000 watts a whole bunch of times but it takes its toll.
You want to hurt a dedicated sprinter? Get him to accel/decel a lot.
Yep, I had a sprinter sitting on back of a break who had won the State TT title, and I knew accelerations were the only way to get him out of there. Another break mate and I took turns gapping him off the back, and the 4th time was the last time he could still accelerate enough to get back on -- of course he was gambling on our desire to get back too, and would let us take him 100m or more off the back. Big efforts to get back on.

He knew what we were doing and told me one time that he was going to wait me out. I said, cool, I have two teammates up there, I'm happy to go back to the pack with you. Then he came around me and towed me back up, trying to drop me in the process
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Old 02-11-13, 11:34 AM   #86
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Yep, I had a sprinter sitting on back of a break who had won the State TT title, and I knew accelerations were the only way to get him out of there. Another break mate and I took turns gapping him off the back, and the 4th time was the last time he could still accelerate enough to get back on -- of course he was gambling on our desire to get back too, and would let us take him 100m or more off the back. Big efforts to get back on.

He knew what we were doing and told me one time that he was going to wait me out. I said, cool, I have two teammates up there, I'm happy to go back to the pack with you. Then he came around me and towed me back up, trying to drop me in the process
Great post WR which is why when I race you will not see me allow myself to get gapped. The second I see that decel I will come around you. I have had teams box me in to do it it just fills me with rage as they really know what they are doing.
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Old 02-11-13, 11:55 AM   #87
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Great post WR which is why when I race you will not see me allow myself to get gapped. The second I see that decel I will come around you. I have had teams box me in to do it it just fills me with rage as they really know what they are doing.
Yeah, that's the way to handle it (I've been the target of such things as well). My favorite time gapping was when the victim stood up to try to come around me, and I heard him scream, and saw him fly off to the edge of the road, come to a stop, and fall over. He cramped up so bad that he couldn't unclip. Of course I had to bridge back up on my own after that, but it was a no-chain day for me and I won.

That's another note on this too. If you're the scary guy in the break, it's likely to fall on you to do the gapping. If there are one or two guys in the break who worry you for the win, let them deal with the sprinter. I axed my chances once with this mistake (b/c gapping is fun -- but it's not the goal)
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Old 02-11-13, 12:44 PM   #88
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Ok, say you are solo with two other riders and one isnt pulling, what do you do?
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Old 02-11-13, 01:23 PM   #89
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Depends.

How are you feeling? How strong is the non-pulling guy? How strong is the pulling guy? How much time to you have on the pack? How long to the finish? Does the sitting on rider have a team back in the pack? Do you? Are you "the guy" for your team that day?
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Old 02-11-13, 01:29 PM   #90
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Cherry Pie Crit p/1/2 yesterday - Napa, CA.

Pack finish. (26th)

A couple of big names (Fast Freddie and some track Natl Champ, probably a few others), 99 riders, meant for nothing but a tough race. It was.

Great course, I loved the downhill in to the right turn at speed!! But I can see why people call this the "Cherry Pileup", though luckily I avoided the few crashes in my race.

A break of 12 got away and before I knew it they had a gap and teams except for one was in it.. by the time I realized I needed to be up there the gap was too big for me to close alone.. race over.

Good times, and good training!!
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Old 02-11-13, 01:48 PM   #91
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Ok, say you are solo with two other riders and one isnt pulling, what do you do?
Happened last year to a couple of friends of mine (one former Pro rider) break of three, 2 of them working together and me sitting in the peleton screwing up the flow to keep them away. My two friends did all the work and the third rider just sat there. In the end buddy 1 came third, pro rider buddy came second and lazy ass came first. I thought said pro rider (bigger than me) was going to kill the guy but while we were talking just said "well that's racing"
Sometimes there is little you can do.
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Old 02-11-13, 01:57 PM   #92
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Ok, say you are solo with two other riders and one isnt pulling, what do you do?
Always remember if it looks like the break is going to stick, guaranteed 3rd is better than being back in the pack!
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Old 02-11-13, 02:02 PM   #93
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Just remember that true sprinters may not be pulling your chain, they may be at the limit just hanging onto the break. It's up to you how hard you want to work to get rid of him.
My point exactly. I was a bit on the revet myself but managed to gap off a few people (almost dropping myself once). I did try to alert the rest of the guys but most seemed content with letting it happen. However, that was one of he hardest breaks I've ever been in. Maybe people were hurting like I was and didn't want to deal with it either. It was a very hard way to get 12th place. I completely understand why sprinters like being sprinters
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Old 02-11-13, 02:54 PM   #94
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Happened last year to a couple of friends of mine (one former Pro rider) break of three, 2 of them working together and me sitting in the peleton screwing up the flow to keep them away. My two friends did all the work and the third rider just sat there. In the end buddy 1 came third, pro rider buddy came second and lazy ass came first. I thought said pro rider (bigger than me) was going to kill the guy but while we were talking just said "well that's racing"
Sometimes there is little you can do.
Yeah, I was that guy one time too. It was a points series and our guy back in the pack was the series leader with two more races. If he won this one, seals it so he doesn't have to race next time. My job was to sit on the break, and win if we didn't get caught. They screamed and yelled at me because they knew I could take them from a sprint and wasn't pulling. I told them my job was to make sure that one of them (2nd in the series) did not win today -- no other goals in the break. They attacked me, and I only followed the 2nd place guy. Let the other one go. Eventually they sat up, we went back to the pack, and my teammate won, sealing the series lead.
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Old 02-11-13, 03:20 PM   #95
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Yeah, I was that guy one time too. It was a points series and our guy back in the pack was the series leader with two more races. If he won this one, seals it so he doesn't have to race next time. My job was to sit on the break, and win if we didn't get caught. They screamed and yelled at me because they knew I could take them from a sprint and wasn't pulling. I told them my job was to make sure that one of them (2nd in the series) did not win today -- no other goals in the break. They attacked me, and I only followed the 2nd place guy. Let the other one go. Eventually they sat up, we went back to the pack, and my teammate won, sealing the series lead.
Wheel-sucking bastard.
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Old 02-11-13, 03:50 PM   #96
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McDowell Crit Mens 5:

Carnage fest from the start: guy in front of me couldn't clip in and got wobbly at the start taking down another rider, dude flew off his bike into a cholla just before a sharp turn (cholla is not to be messed with!), etc. etc.
Glad to have come away in one piece and I think top ten, though I didnt stick around for results.

Getting more experience...
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Old 02-11-13, 05:05 PM   #97
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Call me Renshaw.
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Old 02-11-13, 05:13 PM   #98
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I had to google cholla. Holy crap.
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Old 02-11-13, 05:36 PM   #99
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I had to google cholla. Holy crap.
+1, ouch
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Old 02-11-13, 05:46 PM   #100
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I had to google cholla. Holy crap.
They are resident to California also.
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