rkwaki

The biggest difference though isn't the average speed, the length, etc. it's the speed and length of the surge. When I was roadracing years ago the pace at the start for about 1/2 the race was a pace that any Cat 3/4 could sit in on but when the sense of urgency came, hold on...
It's like a crit. The average may be the same but the top end surge is far and beyond that of a 3/4 race. The factor of teamwork also comes into play, individuals on their own can drive pace high but when you get a couple of strong teams (i.e. UHC, Jelly, Khakis, etc) driving pace to keep it high enough so that they have their sprinters setup it pops most.

Ygduf

this is all just confirming what I orig. posted, no?

which all leads to "content should be measured by content, not who posted it"

rkwaki

Probably correct on both fronts. The only issue would come (on the second point) when someone is commenting never having been there and extending their experiences to something they have never experienced.
I have had conversations like this:
"Well rkwaki why did you fall from the first 10 spots? That's the best place to be. In the Cat 4 race I was able to stay out of trouble..."
"Oh thanks for the advice. I was pushing 700 watts at a heart rate of 184 with two domestic pro team sprinters pushing me off line to make room for their guys..."
"Well I thought my insight could help, our field of 47 was pretty stacked and I managed an 18th place. I also figured out that you can't touch your brakes going into corner three, you will need to carry that speed..."
"Thanks again, little tougher field for us as we had 110, 75% of which were p/1 and pinching 110 riders into a single file corner from almost 40 mph means you have to touch the brakes..."
"Oh well maybe my tips will help next time..."

It's stuff like that which burns my ass...

MDcatV

teton, nice.

Ygduf

How sure are we it's the poor advice which is leading to your burning sensation?

Jandro 

Possibly. I felt pretty calm the whole time.

I did change my saddle several weeks ago. I tried to match my fit numbers as close as possible, but I may be off somewhere. Maybe this was just the first time the effects of being slightly off presented themselves. Going back to my fitter this week.

rkwaki

Because I was using Prep H...
That type of burning usually comes when I pee...

merlinextraligh

I did a Cat 5 race, where we caught and passed the 3/4 race. It wasn't that we were faster, it was that we were stupider. The head wind was such that nothing was getting away, so the 3/4 race was not going very fast, with no attack to chase. Conversely, there were a sufficient number of Cat 5's willing to drill it at the front in the belief that they were winning because they were in front.

aaronmcd

Oakland Grand Prix. Cat 4&5 combined, field of 75. Course was 20 laps of a 0.85 mile "loop" with 6 right corners and 2 left turns, and a small hill. They weren't ready to start at 8:00, so they had us keep riding warm up laps. When they were finally ready, I had no chance to pick a good spot to line up - linedup at the back. This was NOT a course where being at the back works. normally, I could have moved up the pack easily, but the huge field caused dramatic yoyo effect around the corners, and there were so many corners that I never got a break from catching up long enough to pass many people. Hung on for a few laps, then chased hard for a few laps but was eventually pulled from the race. A few people popped off the back every lap - maybe half the field managed to finish. It didnt help that I was probably riding extra conservative after crashing a few weeks back in my last crit.

jsutkeepspining

Isn't that the best when someone who doesn't knwo what their doing is telling you how to win your race

also yes a cat 5-3 race can be faster than a p/1(2) race, but the main difference is the crazy high speed you hit and hold in the 1/2 race. I was in a race where we sat at 20 mph for 20 miles, then did 10 miles at 30 mph only to then slow back down to 20 mph for a whooping 3 minutes, and just go back to holding 30 for a long period of time. That's what would kill a less experienced/strong rider, not the combined 4 miles at 27 mph (or what every the math works out to be). Also you have to race smarter when you race in the 1/2 race. I used to just be like "yolo" in my 3 races and let a break get 1-3 minutes on the field and just bridge up. I can't do that **** now. Everyone is fast, not just 2 or 3 guys.

mike868y

i race p123 races and i'm not fast so i wouldn't say "everyone is fast"

hack

Good job on what you could get done as that was a tough one.

This was a bad race for me, similar to Giro SF I got no sleep needing to drive out from the Valley to race. Also got a bad spot at the start, but was able to scoot up a bit on a few corners and some of the downhill sections. My biggest mistake is gunning out early, so this time around I focused on holding back and sitting in. I ended up doing that too effectively and quickly found myself in the back. Worked a bit to rejoin the main field, but it was too little too late and ended up in a trailing pack that got pulled. A lot of yo yo action due to the figure 8 setup, but a very fun course. Still learning each time I get out there, but need to find that balance of being off the front and sitting in without getting spit out the back. I usually don't have issues on non-tech courses, but have struggle with this approach on the technical courses.

I did see Jandro out there, very focused looking...

carpediemracing 

I got shelled in maybe 3 laps in the 3-4 race today. Went home, Junior took a much needed 2 hour nap, and we returned to the venue. Luckily the parking lot is based on license plate and you pay for 24 hours at a time. We parked in the same lot, went back, and watched the end of the Juniors as well as the P123s. Holy smokes on the P123s - so so so fast. I used to experience wheels chattering in corners, cornering at the absolute limit, etc, but I realized today that I can't go fast enough to need to deal with that now. It's a bummer.

jsutkeepspining

First, i was talking about just p/1/2 race, but i understand the point. Let me say it this way, in a 3 race maybe 4 guys are fast out of say 60+ guys, in the p/1/2 race 40 out of the 60-100 guys are fast.

mike868y

i was just making a joke bruh

jsutkeepspining

i was just clarifying a statement i made. Its no big deal.

mattm

Another Oakland GP report, p/1/2 - 40 laps.

Fun course, if a little rough and bumpy in some places.. our field was only 40 guys and missing most of the heavy hitters so things seemed a tad more chill than usual, but of course a p/1/2 race is never really "chill".

I felt pretty good, followed a few attacks from Mike's Bikes since they had 5-6 guys (of course), the most of any team out there.

Got in a break briefly with about 16 to go, but when the HR hit 194 it was time to coast back to the pack.. they got brought back anyway. It was hard to recover in the pack, I ended up yo-yoing off the back briefly, had to dig deep and keep pushing on, knowing the pack would eventually sit up a bit. But up to that point I was about to pull out, luckily it didn't come to that!!

It seemed like it was gonna come down to a field sprint and it did.. I wish I'd done better but due to not being aggressive enough and losing track of the laps, I was about 20th wheel on the last lap, and a guy put his spokes into someone's skewer in front of me.. had the hit the brakes, WTF!!! Ugh, I hate stupid **** like that but it was my fault for being behind him.

Made up a few wheels between the last few turns, but not enough.

Ended up 13th in the end, pissed (at myself) it wasn't better since it would've been a good sprint for me had I been positioned better.

Came away with $50 for my troubles though, so that was pretty sweet! Rubio's never tasted better.

Jandro 

You should have come said hi!

My report for Oakland: cat 4/5, 24/75

I went into this one wanting to be a bit more aggressive and try something other than sitting in the pack. After a late start (25 minutes late!) and a long warmup, I lined up in the front row. The course is super fun but has pretty crappy pavement and a really sharp corner half way through. I love these more technical courses though as you can really take advantage of being near the front and getting a good line through turns.

I stayed top 10-30 for the first half of the race and with 8 to go, started to push towards the front. I was second wheel coming out of the sharp turn and tried to motivate the guy in front of me to hit the gas but he wasn't having it. I came around him and drilled it.

I succeeded in stringing out the pack and caused a few small gaps to open along the way, but it wasn't enough for a real separation. I was starting to hurt after a lap of this and eased up to reintegrate. I spend the next couple laps recovering. I should have tried to make up more spots coming into lap 2 (need to be more aggressive and burn those matches!) for better positioning but for whatever reason I wasn't focused and ended up coming into the last turn about 30 wheels back. I only half-pushed (didn't sprint) to the line and ended up making up a few more spots.

Overall, I raced way better than I did in the Giro di SF. I covered some moves, tried for a break, shook it up a bit and had an awesome time. I love this course (even with the ****ty pavement) and can't wait for next year.

The most exciting part was striking a pedal going through that sharp 'hairpin' but being able to keep it upright without losing too much ground. Spiked my heart rate for the following lap, though!

JohnKScott

Good job guys!

Hida Yanra

Home from collegiate track nats.
I did 8 events in three days, but the way it was split up I ended with 5 events on the last day. Legs are so, so, so busted.
It was .... I dunno, I've never been in a race environment quite like that before.
Kids with pro contracts, kids fresh back from jr worlds, kids on the national team... TSS was had.

If the rain holds off, I'll get the season-ender friday night track race in, hopefully get my cat2, and then be done.
I'm still trying to digest everything that happened over the last 3-4 days, but I'll write up a race report eventually.

JohnKScott

Sounds like a great experience! Good luck on your remaining races!

hack

Will do next time...I spent the better part of the morning trying to figure out the course as they had nothing setup and the guys doing the setup on course were sending folks every which way. The officials at the line did the best they could with keeping us rolling....probably did about 5 extra warm up laps in there.

Agreed that the course is fun. Learned the hard way that sitting in on a tech course is not an ideal approach as you get strung out pretty quick. I need to work some punchier interval training in my regimen as I was struggling to recover quick enough to hit coming out of the next turn.

Looking forward to better planning and sleep on my end next year for both the Giro SF and Oakland. Both are pretty unique race courses and definitely not the typical business park setting.

grolby

Boston Mayor's Cup cat 2/3 on Saturday. Plan was "give no ****s" race strategy. That went pretty well. I'm well down on fitness from my peak in late June, but much fresher, so hanging in was no real problem. I was missing probably 5% or so from what I would need to be mixing it up more, so I think I could actually be racing this thing next year. The only serious move I made was to try and catch a dangerous-looking split maybe 1/3 of the way into the race, I hitched a ride on a fast wheel down the backstretch and caught the good line through turn three to head up the hill and latch onto the tail end of the front group, gained about 50 spots in that one lap. That felt pretty cool. Nothing really happened after that, sat in till the end, dodged a turn three crash on the final lap and got my pack finish in 44th from around 86 starters. So, an anonymous race for me, but in a fun and encouraging for the future kind of way.

JohnKScott

Nice!

shovelhd

Too bad I missed you. I watched a few laps of your race but the family and lunch were calling. I ended up 34th/89 in my race. 0.92IF, 175bpm avg. HR. We were turning 1:30 laps, around 29mph. I had a shot at the money but getting caught behind that crash with 6 to go just crushed me. Too much fight too late in the game.

Have a great offseason. I'm sure we'll meet up again next year, maybe at Wells.