revchuck 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Following a training plan is work, though it can be enjoyable as well. You can still improve having fun and riding hard when you can, the improvement would just come more slowly. You can't obtain optimal improvement without targeted training. TANSTAAFL.

jsutkeepspining

i really wanted to use this as my signature, but unfortunately theirs a character limit.

rkwaki

There's or there is

Just use "You're not dumb. You're just less smart" - Racer Ex

jsutkeepspining

shush i have the flu. went home sick at 10. woke up at 5

waterrockets 

rkwaki

Freudian Slip...

Racer Ex 

echappist

k, that was an exaggeration. but at least 1.5 years of riding on your own or however long it takes to have the intellectual curiosity to learn about your own limits and the training methods out there.

i've seen way too many people piss away their money (while being students no less) because they didn't know what they want and their coaches didn't have a clue either. Either party being motivated and curious obviously changes things, but far too many coaches give out only cookie cutter plans and far too many riders don't really know what they want.

tetonrider

i believe that whether or not one derives benefit from a coach has more to do with their mindset than their years of experience.

that said, the point above about your friends shelling out $60/month...i'm not sure if that was meant as if it were a high amount. if those people stopped to think, the would be paying far less than minimum wage for their "full service coach".

seriously, let's just say it takes 2 hours to write a plan or a given week (that is informed by how things went the week before), to respond to some questions, to review some data files, which would probably be on the low side. that's $7.50 per hour. also, if this is a business for these coaches there are taxes and expenses on top of that.

what were your friends hoping to achieve?

seems to me maybe they got what they paid for, sadly. at that level, might as well just get a canned plan or train oneself. i don't think it should be held up as an example against coaching.

happybday29475

A little more depth on my experience with coaching:
- for a number of years, rode my bike a lot, often pushing myself hard. Occasionally, maybe once or twice a year, did a race, and always finished near the back of the lowest category, and was always astonished: "I ride a lot, and yet all these guys are way faster than me...they must ride an incredible amount!"
- Then, more recently, I got a coach. Didn't ride a whole bunch more than I did without a coach. But did all kinds of workouts I had never imagined. Did a few races, and suddenly was a player.

I used to think a coach was a stupid idea for a casual amateur racer. My recent recent experience has taught me how wrong I was. I think anybody who values being a competitive racer should get a coach, especially those who are new to the sport.

PS - Finding the right coach, and learning how to get the most from a coach, are wholly different subjects, and are non-trivial accomplishments.

flats

Huge bump, with an update and a new question.

I started this spring (2014) as a 5 with a handful of races under my belt, upgraded to 4 and quickly moved through that category with two wins and a podium, finishing the season as a 3. I didn't race much as a 3, but I'd like to blow through that category next spring, with a few road races and a stage race. So: how does training as a 3 differ from training as a 2?

Creatre

FWIW, Category 3 to 2 is a huge jump. Train to survive cat 3 races is completely different than training to survive cat 2 races.

mattm

depends.

depends on how much you trained as a 3, your fitness level, types of races/terrain you want to do well at.

misterwaterfall

I agree with Creatre, mostly because our 2 races are run as p12. I cleaned up at the beginning of the season in the 3s for a quick upgrade, and was hurting in the p12 races all season.

carpediemracing 

If you blow through the 3s in "a few road races and a stage race" then you're probably really, really strong. At some level the 2s won't be that much harder, if at all. Probably not harder in terms of pure power, like FTP kind of stuff.

On the other hand the pack riding etc will be more intense, much more close quarter stuff.

Some 3s, like me, rely on tactics/racecraft vs fitness, and the 2s are merciless when it comes to those kinds of riders. Someone made a comment about a domestic pro team looking for a crit racer. "Well you know what you want - someone that can do 300w for the race and then rip out a 2000w sprint". And the thing is that the guy wasn't exaggerating much, if at all.

I upgraded to 2 the same year as another guy. He commented to me that all the Cat 3 sprinters, like us, get a bit lost in the 2s. The reason is that everyone is strong enough to try and get away so the sprinter guys are either stuck in the field or get so fatigued in the breaks that they can't sprint. That's the opposite type of rider, the one that would go do "a bunch of crits and upgrade to 2".

I'd take a real honest look at your pack riding skills. The 4s, at least those around here, are still learning. The 3s are pretty intense in the bigger races, with some older Olympians and former National Champs peppering the fields. Road races and stage races typically reward really strong/fit riders but they reduce the importance of tactics and field riding skills.

Ygduf

Pepper is a weird word for sandbagging.

rkwaki

Great post.
Another big difference and adding on to what CDR said is when you get to be a 2 you have to put up with ******** like me that will bounce you around or manhandle you in a field for position. We easily identify the fish out of water.
Is the training different? Dunno. Based on what you said you would like to win I would assume you are doing some pretty big weeks. One focal point will be training until you get tired then add the intensity on at the end.

carpediemracing 

Heh. I was looking for where the term came from then realized it was me.

At least I sometimes beat the guys nowadays, the "older" (I'm talking guys over 50 now) Olympians and former national champions. The guy in the linked clip is deceivingly strong, pushing a huge gear but somehow getting it going. A jumpy type like me might be able to beat him now but in the old days only national class sprinters (like another local 50+ former Olympian-NationalChamp) could get the drop on him. He'd usually make the break, making his sprint less of an issue.

YMCA

Hold the phone; I thought the goal of races is to win? Surviving sounds pack-fillerish

spectastic

I personally think it's critical to be located where other racers are. Around here, we have a small cycling community, and there are two guys who really know how to race, and one of them has a beer belly while the other one almost never comes out anymore. I think if I were located in Houston or Austin or Dallas, with seasonal crit series, high caliber racers to ride with, and being around that competitive racing atmosphere, there's a much greater incentive to get out and ride, learn, train, etc. I mean we've kind of established a group 'training' ride for the offseason, but it's not a real racing paceline. It's still a community thing because we just don't have racers, and people from the regular group rides are getting flats, stopping too long for refreshment, and going "what pace are we going?" I hate that we have that plateau


My last season as a cat 4 was a waste. I spent months getting my fitness back from a 2 month off period, didn't really have a consistent training plan, did very few long rides, didn't go into races prepared, and did not practice good tactics when racing. I was out in the wind a lot, and was a lot of times, a mule to bridge gaps and perform leadouts. But I like the idea of playing around in the 4's to get experience before catting up to a 3. I want to cat up, and possibly reach the 2's one day, but I wouldn't want it if that means suffering like a pig for a pack finish week in week out.

spectastic

I did happen to have raced in a couple of 1/2/3 fields in the training series. (You can call me a rat for sneaking in but I don't care). The field pace was actually more relaxed than the 3/4 race (or at least felt like it), but the pace got pretty good towards the end. I got dropped on the last lap because some guy jump in front of me and created a 10m gap for the rest of us. I don't know how long I could've hanged, but that tells me at least for crits, there's a chance. road races are going to require some hard centuries and double century weekends.

caloso

Or, in my case, suffer like a pig for a pack finish week in weeek out just to remain a 3.

mattm

Well, at least you know what not to do next season! (everything you did last season)

spectastic

I still think the biggest thing is getting myself involved in a more serious cycling group, and possibly a team. Relocation would be a big step, as well as picking a job that doesn't suck.

furiousferret

I went from a non cycling town to one of the better cycling towns in SoCal. Best thing I could have done for my cycling.