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Old 12-05-13, 03:32 PM   #1051
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We have a few garden beds, but it's not enough to be more than summer fun and some canning. I'd love to do the whole yard, front as well but it'll cost a pretty penny. Our soil sucks (it's mostly gravel) and we put a couple grand into making the beds we have.
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Old 12-05-13, 03:50 PM   #1052
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http://www.fossilfarms.com


This place is close to me, so I can drive there.
I'm 25 miles east of there (and you, I guess) - are they open in the winter? I would buy grass fed beef in bulk if possible.
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Old 12-05-13, 03:54 PM   #1053
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I'm 25 miles east of there (and you, I guess) - are they open in the winter? I would buy grass fed beef in bulk if possible.
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Old 12-05-13, 04:15 PM   #1054
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Fully organic will only feed the wealthy.
Also: "organic" ag requires more land for the same output than does fertilized/insecticided/herbicided ag. Anybody care to guess where the world's incremental farmland is? Yep: the Amazon. So...the masses eating more grass fed beef and/or organic produce contributes to, nee requires, chopping down more Amazon.
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Old 12-05-13, 04:19 PM   #1055
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Just a little personal anecdote.

I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.

At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).

So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
FB - Not fussing at you, just adding another data point.

The above assumes that one lives in a densely populated, relatively affluent area. In my experience, those types of stores are rare in other contexts. Most people don't have reasonable access to that kind of meat, even assuming they can afford it.

Having said that, I live in the boonies in Louisiana. No Whole Foods-type stores for at least a hundred miles...but there are a few butcher shops that offer locally-raised pastured beef. It's common for local farmers to pasture their stock in fallow rice fields - does this count as grain fed? This discussion has got me thinking about getting half a locally-raised cow instead of going to the grocery store.
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Old 12-05-13, 04:23 PM   #1056
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I'm 25 miles east of there (and you, I guess) - are they open in the winter? I would buy grass fed beef in bulk if possible.
year round I imagine. My last big order was around Isadorah's birthday last February (I made kangaroo loin).
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Old 12-05-13, 04:29 PM   #1057
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What you said: "This place is close to me, so I can drive there"

What I read: "Come by and I'll cook you a bison steak"
I've thrown out enough open invitations. I'm happy to put people up and cook for them in the adirondacks. I can even point them towards Whiteface.
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Old 12-05-13, 04:35 PM   #1058
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I've thrown out enough open invitations. I'm happy to put people up and cook for them in the adirondacks. I can even point them towards Whiteface.
Yeah I know, just teasin'
One day...
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Old 12-05-13, 04:41 PM   #1059
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The above assumes that one lives in a densely populated, relatively affluent area. In my experience, those types of stores are rare in other contexts. Most people don't have reasonable access to that kind of meat, even assuming they can afford it.
People who live in sparsely populated areas own guns.

Fishing is fun.
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Old 12-05-13, 04:44 PM   #1060
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Having said that, I live in the boonies in Louisiana. No Whole Foods-type stores for at least a hundred miles...but there are a few butcher shops that offer locally-raised pastured beef. It's common for local farmers to pasture their stock in fallow rice fields - does this count as grain fed? This discussion has got me thinking about getting half a locally-raised cow instead of going to the grocery store.
Living in the boonies can make finding a grass-fed cow easier. It sure makes it easier to come up with 'natural' eggs. Anyway, my garage freezer is stuffed with a grass-fed cow, and that reduces the cost of that meat by about 50%.

My guess is that it's a little easier for someone in Loozie-anna to come up with land for a vegetable garden. There are compromises no matter where you live, huh?
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Old 12-05-13, 05:09 PM   #1061
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People who live in sparsely populated areas own guns.
Myself included, but public hunting land here is pretty well populated during deer season. Most hunting is done on land leased by hunting clubs on paper company timber plots, and getting on one of those leases ain't cheap. I don't have the time to put into it, either; it'd be either hunt or ride. I miss PA.

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There are compromises no matter where you live, huh?
You got that right!
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Old 12-05-13, 06:09 PM   #1062
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Just a little personal anecdote.

I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.

At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).

So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
1/6 lb of beef per person? I eat about 1/2 pound in a meal (either 2x 1/4 lb burgers, or 1/2 lb pasta with 1/2 lb beef). Cheapest cheese I can buy is more than .25/slice. And if I'm having burgers I need some fresh veggies on that, not just meat and cheese on a bun.
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Old 12-05-13, 06:33 PM   #1063
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I'm in a meeting for a whole day and thread goes to hell.

Grass fed vs. corn fed isn't the argument we should all be having. I'd aim more at grass-fed, less grass-fed, or without meat. Corn-fed is destructive on so many counts, not the least of which is the damage done by growing all the ugly corn to feed the cattle. The damage starts there, proceeds through the factory farms, and continues on into the ingestion of the meat and the run-offs produced at every stage.

Sorry that good animal husbandry is expensive, but the good news is you don't actually _need_ it.
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Old 12-05-13, 06:42 PM   #1064
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1/6 lb of beef per person? I eat about 1/2 pound in a meal (either 2x 1/4 lb burgers, or 1/2 lb pasta with 1/2 lb beef). Cheapest cheese I can buy is more than .25/slice. And if I'm having burgers I need some fresh veggies on that, not just meat and cheese on a bun.
Who said anything about a bun?

Ya, 1/6th of a pound is about right for the kids (4,6 & 9) and the wife. That's ~20 grams of protein and some fat. Add the cheese and you're looking at ~25g protein and maybe 12g fat. Like I said, I take 2.
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Old 12-05-13, 06:45 PM   #1065
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Sorry that good animal husbandry is expensive, but the good news is you don't actually _need_ it.
Yeah, bad animal husbandry works just as well.
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Old 12-05-13, 07:41 PM   #1066
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1/2lb of meat is so damn excessive and aaronmcd assuming that's "normal" goes a long way to illustrate my point re americans and meat (which I know never was in debate, but still).
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Old 12-05-13, 07:51 PM   #1067
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pffft

8oz?


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Old 12-05-13, 07:57 PM   #1068
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Old 12-05-13, 09:22 PM   #1069
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1/2lb of meat is so damn excessive and aaronmcd assuming that's "normal" goes a long way to illustrate my point re americans and meat (which I know never was in debate, but still).
Horses for courses. If you're a small guy on a 'normal' day, it's a good chunk. If you're a big dude and you've had a good workout or you're attempting to put on some muscle, 50g of protein in a sitting isn't that big of a deal. If you're drawing some sort of personal value view on this consumption, then you're going to need to go to P&R to discuss that.
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Old 12-05-13, 11:59 PM   #1070
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'grass-fed' has become so trendy nowadays...and many consumers aren't even aware of what it really means. most of what people are buying is 'grass-fed, grain-finished', which essentially amounts to "all the weight put on to bulk up the animal is from grain, but, yeah, when we bought the calf it had only been fed grass to that point."

reminds me a bit of the nebulous 'all natural' labels that get thrown around.

though i don't eat much red meat, i'm lucky to live in an area where i can buy a side of locally-raised purely grass-fed beef if i were so inclined...or more wild game (which i prefer), like elk, bison, etc.
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Old 12-06-13, 08:03 AM   #1071
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Grass fed beef, Organic Turkeys, Free range chickens.....I'm skeptical. I'm vegetarian so I'm not eating any of it but as the primary shopper for my family, I do worry about the quality of meat and animal products they consume. I use about half the amount of meat in most recipes, using beans and vegetables as a replacement. I grew up in Europe and even though things have changed over there, it always seemed that Americans consumed a lot of meat and that the meat was the center of the meal, with everything else as "sides".
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Old 12-06-13, 08:15 AM   #1072
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pffft

8oz?



Looks like a normal meal.
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Old 12-06-13, 08:45 AM   #1073
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Looks delicious.
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Old 12-06-13, 08:48 AM   #1074
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It was indeed. At least the first 3 pounds. Kinda painful until 4 1/2 when I ran out of time with about a pound of bun and fries left.
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Old 12-06-13, 11:13 AM   #1075
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It was indeed. At least the first 3 pounds. Kinda painful until 4 1/2 when I ran out of time with about a pound of bun and fries left.
You needed help from RichinPeoria.
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