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-   -   All About Nutrition (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/870212-all-about-nutrition.html)

jsutkeepspining 01-31-13 07:18 PM

ftp test is this

30 min warm up
5 min hard effort
10 min recovery
20 min all out

ftp is then .95 times the average power for the 20 minute test.

sstang13 01-31-13 07:24 PM

When I did mine it was a 20 minute warm up (although I did show up kinda late and only had time for 20min) and then a 5 min recovery and then a 20min all out effort. My coach did take .95 of my average watts though but that test is a little different I guess.

jsutkeepspining 01-31-13 07:39 PM

it doesnt matter too much as long as its consistant

aka dont start using a differnt method every time u test. stick to one

echappist 01-31-13 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining (Post 15221470)
sorry, im a little out of it still :P


personally i am not into fish tacos that much. The after taste is rather strong. I need those after fish taco mints. I can, but i have other things i would rather do first.

learn to eat it like a dish. it's good for you ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 15221460)
FIFY
OOOOOOH I love me some fish tacos...
She loves fish tacos as well...

see, the old man knows his priorities and what should come first

echappist 01-31-13 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creatre (Post 15221323)
400w at threshold isn't that impressive when you weigh as much as an elephant.

For example, 400w at 200lb (90.5kg) is only 4.4w/kg. I think he said his race weight was like 180lb (81.5kg). That would put it at 4.9w/kg which is solid, but not really super impressive. I'm sure it sucks to hold his wheel on the flat lands though.

yeah man, only. half of all racers probably won't ever see that number for ftp

echappist 01-31-13 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enthalpic (Post 15216324)
Hydrophobic aminos isolates are not really suited for mixing into drinks, and yes they taste gross.

You can get them encapsulated and just pop a couple caps every hour or so if inclined.

not to mention that your bike looks as if someone just slathered it in titanium dioxide (aka white powder sunscreen).

-----

on another note, my weight is finally coming down somewhat now that i've added more intensity to my training. well, i also started cooking for myself again, so that also helps. Also helps that i no longer eat b/c i feel bored at work and instead find it more often that i'm going on prolonged period without eating when i try to eat something every 3-4 hours.

sstang13 01-31-13 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining (Post 15222177)
it doesnt matter too much as long as its consistant

aka dont start using a differnt method every time u test. stick to one

That is true.

jsutkeepspining 01-31-13 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 15222242)
learn to eat it like a dish. It's good for you ;)


see, the old man knows his priorities and what should come first

lolz

Fat Boy 01-31-13 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 15222251)
yeah man, only. half of all racers probably won't ever see that number for ftp

At 135#, I was around 4.4 w/kg, but the the difference between me on the front of a pack as a light weight and waki on the front as a heavy weight is a massive freakin' difference. OK, on paper we'll go up a 12 percent grade the same, but in real life, it won't even be close. That doesn't even take into account his VO2 max and sprint ooomph.

Enthalpic 01-31-13 11:19 PM

Here are a few papers showing that fasted training may be more effective. You get greater increases in oxidative enzymes; VO2max rises faster; your recovery drink becomes more restorative; it's better for you if you are getting fatter and yet is not disastrous even if you are chronically under eating. If you consume food during the workout it reduces the workouts effectiveness.

Beneficial metabolic adaptations due to endurance exercise training in the fasted state.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21051570

Adaptations to skeletal muscle with endurance exercise training in the acutely fed versus overnight-fasted state
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20452283

Increased p70s6k phosphorylation during intake of a protein-carbohydrate drink following resistance exercise in the fasted state.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20187284

Training in the fasted state improves glucose tolerance during fat-rich diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20837645

Effects of caloric restriction and overnight fasting on cycling endurance performance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19197210

Glucose ingestion during exercise blunts exercise-induced gene expression of skeletal muscle fat oxidative genes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16030063

saratoga 02-01-13 06:48 AM

Got up and made breakfast this morning... 3 egg whites scrambled with spinach, greek yogurt and a bowl of steel cut oats with honey.

rkwaki 02-01-13 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 15221738)
Re: oatmeal, my gf just introduced me to the trick where you make a batch at night (not instant), then just reheat them in the morning. Why didn't I think of that??

Up to now I only did instant b/c I was lazy, but now I can still be lazy AND eat the good stuff.

Here is what we do:
4 cups of steel cut oats
8 cups of water
About 1 cup of ground flaxseed
A bunch of cinammon

Throw it all in a glass Pyrex (???) dish with a cover and cook it in the microwave for about 12 minutes (I think)

Then put it in the fridge with a 1/3c measuring cup so it is always ready to go.

rkwaki 02-01-13 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saratoga (Post 15223357)
Got up and made breakfast this morning... 3 egg whites scrambled with spinach, greek yogurt and a bowl of steel cut oats with honey.

Nice (except for the honey :))

changes2008 02-01-13 08:29 AM

How's that choco covered doughnut this morning Rkwaki? I know you're putting 'em down this morning. Don't lie.

rkwaki 02-01-13 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by changes2008 (Post 15223654)
How's that choco covered doughnut this morning Rkwaki? I know you're putting 'em down this morning. Don't lie.

Go get your tires rotated...

And no I did not have a doughnut today THOUGH I did have two yesterday and they were yommmmmmmmy!!!!

And from the files of What The **** Did I Eat Yesterday? Garlic and I don't agree the day after...

changes2008 02-01-13 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 15223676)
Go get your tires rotated...

Oh crap! Going to do that right now. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 15223676)
And no I did not have a doughnut today THOUGH I did have two yesterday and they were yommmmmmmmy!!!!

And from the files of What The **** Did I Eat Yesterday? Garlic and I don't agree the day after...

You continue to eat that and every time you whine about it.

rkwaki 02-01-13 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by changes2008 (Post 15223699)
Oh crap! Going to do that right now. Thanks!



You continue to eat that and every time you whine about it.

That is true but then again I drink my milk from a bowl.....
GO!!!! NOW!!!

Stealthammer 02-01-13 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining (Post 15219341)
....personally i am not into fish tacos that much. The after taste is rather strong......

I have to agree with MattM regarding trying Tilapia for your fish tacos as Tilapia has very little flavor of it's own, so you can season it in any way that you choose and it won't taste fishy at all if it is fresh. I've even served dishes with Tilapia in them to friends who don't like any fish at all, and they were amazed that they didn't taste the fish at all.

However, compared to other farmed fish, Tilapia contains relatively small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids and a less beneficial mix of fatty acids, because the fish are fed corn and soy instead of lake plants and algae which is the diet of wild tilapia. Tilapia is a very good source of protein though, with few of the unhealthy saturated fats, and it is far more healthy to consume than most red or white meats.

But only use Tilapia farmed in the US, and avoid those farmed in Asia or Latin America, because both are poorly regulated and allow the Tilapia to be farmed and packed using methods that are strictly prohibited here in the US. Since less than 10 percent of Tilapia consumed in the U.S. is farmed domestically though, you need to check carefully. Salmon is a much better choice, but almost any type of fish is better for you than red or white meats.

rkwaki 02-01-13 08:54 AM

jsut - 1
rkwaki - 0

The fish taco comment from the little pervert continues...

But since we are talking about it I will need to check where our tilapia comes from. Thanks for the info.

Creakyknees 02-01-13 10:36 AM

re: training in a fasted state.

I started experimenting with that a few years ago, right when Graeme Street / Cyclo-Core got started and I was reading his stuff and a few others, trying to understand how caloric timing and hormone responses might help with fat loss while still being able to train hard. Anyway, Graeme recommended starting the weekend long ride in a fasted state, but also having calories along and starting a drink/eating immediately. For me, sample size 1, it seemed to work. I actually felt better with an empty stomach at the start and couldn't really tell any difference in time to exhaustion on the long rides.

I still mostly ride that way, though sometimes I'll have some oatmeal or eggs before the Sunday ride, especially if Saturday was a real leg-breaker.

During the week, with my 8-5 job, I'll have a 3-4pm snack then hit the workout about 5-5:30 ish, so, not entirely fasted but certainly not full either. Of course weeknight workouts are typically shorter / more intense for me, then I get done and am famished, so it's important to have the _right_ recovery foods handy because I know I'll eat whatever's in front of me at that point.

Which leads to the really big "must do" of proper nutrition, which I don't see much talk about: planning. preparation.
Both long term, as in, planning your shopping, prepping good meals and snacks in advance so they are ready when you're starving, but also short term, meaning each and every day you have to have your foods and snacks ready in advance because if you forget or wing it, you'll get hungry and start a binge.

Stay ahead of the hunger curve...

Fat Boy 02-01-13 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enthalpic (Post 15222856)
Here are a few papers showing that fasted training may be more effective. You get greater increases in oxidative enzymes; VO2max rises faster; your recovery drink becomes more restorative; it's better for you if you are getting fatter and yet is not disastrous even if you are chronically under eating. If you consume food during the workout it reduces the workouts effectiveness.

Really good stuff here (as usual).

My Sunday ride is usually about 1.5-2 hours before the kids are awake. About once a month I'll do it fasted. I need to rethink that. Anyway, in the morning without eating anything (I'll have a cup of black tea, nothing it...gotta have my tea) I can only produce maybe SST power. Ya, I can turn the pedals hard for a minute or two if I want to, but I try to do a threshold or above workout, I fail it every time. From the papers you posted, they did endurance training at 70-75% of VO2 max. A quick look at my CP curve shows that 70%-75% of my 5-minute power is exactly in my SST range.

So is this the type of training that you would recommend fasted?

Side note: I do my Sunday morning SST rides on the ring road around a local mall. There's no traffic and it's like my own little circuit race. Anyway, on one corner is a Jack-In-The-Box fast food joint. After about 45 minutes of SST I start dreaming of food. Every lap the smell of that greasy, nasty fast food smells so good it's crazy. Bacon, Sausage, French Toast, Hashbrowns....it's torture. Finally I get to go home and tear it up.

mattm 02-01-13 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 15223620)
Nice (except for the honey :))

You don't like honey?

rkwaki 02-01-13 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 15224526)
You don't like honey?

I like honey (mmmmm delicious) but pure sugar which I fight to stay away from (unsuccessfully I must say).

canam73 02-01-13 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 15223614)
Here is what we do:
4 cups of steel cut oats
8 cups of water
About 1 cup of ground flaxseed
A bunch of cinammon

Throw it all in a glass Pyrex (???) dish with a cover and cook it in the microwave for about 12 minutes (I think)

Then put it in the fridge with a 1/3c measuring cup so it is always ready to go.

I've never understood the fuss.

I throw rolled oats in a bowl with a sprinkle of 'pumpkin pie spice' and water and then microwave for 2 minutes (make sure it boils/steams). Then use cold milk to cool and thin it. Works fine with raisins or whatever too.

rkwaki 02-01-13 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canam73 (Post 15224618)
I've never understood the fuss.

I throw rolled oats in a bowl with a sprinkle of 'pumpkin pie spice' and water and then microwave for 2 minutes (make sure it boils/steams). Then use cold milk to cool and thin it. Works fine with raisins or whatever too.


We just do a huge bunch so there are no excuses.


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