All About Nutrition
12-05-13, 11:38 AM
#1028
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12-05-13, 11:39 AM
#1029
out walking the earth
meat doesn't "feed the world," though. the meat industry in america is huge because americans insist on eating meat 3 times a day. in most parts of the world, meat is eaten once a day, at most, and even then serving sizes are far smaller than americans. the meat industry isn't solving world hunger, it's filling the bellies of rich americans who could afford to purchase responsibly raised meat if they were a) educated and b) cared enough about their health/diet to spend more money on groceries and less on TVs/cars/video games/etc.
I care about my health and diet and generally can't afford to buy the kind of groceries you speak of as part of my family's every day diet. Part of the problem is those who come from places where they give out silver spoons have difficulty seeing beyond their own immediate circumstances. One should also not discount that people generally don't know this stuff. The lobbies that influence these kind of things being allowable are also quite good at burying readily available public information. Most folks would be shocked to learn that the FDA actually allows things to be put into their food system that can actually, you know, kill them.
That said, to call pointing out that cattle aren't meant to eat corn and as a result need to be massive amounts of antibiotics 'animal rightsy' borders on delusion. It's human rightsy as it's proven it's not good for us. Also there's a direct correlation with factory farming and some of the major health scares we've had related to food born illnesses. Again, to deny that is delusional. Food is cheaper now than it was in past generations, and we eat more of it. Again, simply facts. Preventable food related diseases are at all time highs. The profits of food corporations are also higher. Our food production system is a mess. For anyone who cares about their health and well being (most folks really don't) should be concerned. The paint over those concerns as trendy is silly.
12-05-13, 11:44 AM
#1030
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12-05-13, 11:49 AM
#1031
out walking the earth
Someone says something that places how you shop in the same category as one who doesn't care about their family's health. Based entirely on ignorance. Should I perhaps tongue kiss him? I refuse to live in a world where one can passive aggressively insult you and you're unable to point it out to them. My job training is about empathy and compassion, but sometime's the most compassionate thing you can do for another is point out that they're an ass. I know plenty of people who would have been better served to get their ass kicked when they were younger.
12-05-13, 11:56 AM
#1032
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12-05-13, 11:58 AM
#1033
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You obviously know the key words...
Or you're talking code...
12-05-13, 11:59 AM
#1034
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Someone says something that places how you shop in the same category as one who doesn't care about their family's health. Based entirely on ignorance. Should I perhaps tongue kiss him? I refuse to live in a world where one can passive aggressively insult you and you're unable to point it out to them. My job training is about empathy and compassion, but sometime's the most compassionate thing you can do for another is point out that they're an ass. I know plenty of people who would have been better served to get their ass kicked when they were younger.
I have learned though that sometime's 'tough love' works best...
12-05-13, 12:02 PM
#1035
out walking the earth
That we're filling the bellies of the rich also goes against the grain of reality. The food production systems we're talking about make cheap unhealthy fast food possible, and speaks to the higher rates of obesity, diabetes and other food related diseases in poorer neighborhoods where funds to buy 'organic' is limited as is knowledge.
Veggies cost more than cheap beef, especially when you start looking at cost per calorie.
12-05-13, 12:37 PM
#1036
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Just a little personal anecdote.
I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.
At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).
So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.
At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).
So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
12-05-13, 12:53 PM
#1037
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That said, to call pointing out that cattle aren't meant to eat corn and as a result need to be massive amounts of antibiotics 'animal rightsy' borders on delusion. It's human rightsy as it's proven it's not good for us. Also there's a direct correlation with factory farming and some of the major health scares we've had related to food born illnesses. Again, to deny that is delusional. Food is cheaper now than it was in past generations, and we eat more of it. Again, simply facts. Preventable food related diseases are at all time highs. The profits of food corporations are also higher. Our food production system is a mess. For anyone who cares about their health and well being (most folks really don't) should be concerned. The paint over those concerns as trendy is silly.
https://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/end-abx/
12-05-13, 01:16 PM
#1038
out walking the earth
Just a little personal anecdote.
I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.
At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).
So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
I don't cook for 1 person; I cook for 5. Me, my wife and my kids.
At the local 'Sprouts' market I can get naturally fed meat burger for about $8-10/#. This is for elk, bison, antelope, beef, boar, etc. I split it into 6 patties. I get a big bag of frozen veggies (I prefer fresh, but this makes accounting easier) for $1.50 which I saute. On the burgers I put a slice of Kerrygold grass-fed cheese (Costco,~$0.25/slice). I might also make some rice (~$1/# or $0.10-0.15 per serving).
So when we're all said and done, I've fed the family a damn fine meal for about $12 or a little more than $2 apiece. It isn't all that expensive to eat well, it just takes the willingness to cook instead of just popping something in microwave.
Costco chicken is sub $3.00/lb. Lord knows what they do to those birds. To buy genuine local chicken, raised in natural humane conditions is simply cost prohibitive for me. I can buy 'organic' in the supermarket for 6 or 7 a pound, but those designations on further inspection are rife with assumptions and where they come from and how they're really raised is a massive question mark and for me I can't justify $3-4 a meal difference. Not when we eat chicken most days. Sure when we make gourmet burgers we order in some elk or bison or other great stuff, but it's just not in the cards for that stuff to be day in day out for us.
12-05-13, 01:24 PM
#1039
Senior Member
some of what you wrote is kind of stupid.
I care about my health and diet and generally can't afford to buy the kind of groceries you speak of as part of my family's every day diet. Part of the problem is those who come from places where they give out silver spoons have difficulty seeing beyond their own immediate circumstances. One should also not discount that people generally don't know this stuff. The lobbies that influence these kind of things being allowable are also quite good at burying readily available public information. Most folks would be shocked to learn that the FDA actually allows things to be put into their food system that can actually, you know, kill them.
I care about my health and diet and generally can't afford to buy the kind of groceries you speak of as part of my family's every day diet. Part of the problem is those who come from places where they give out silver spoons have difficulty seeing beyond their own immediate circumstances. One should also not discount that people generally don't know this stuff. The lobbies that influence these kind of things being allowable are also quite good at burying readily available public information. Most folks would be shocked to learn that the FDA actually allows things to be put into their food system that can actually, you know, kill them.
I do agree that education is a huge issue and most people don't know how to eat food that's good for them (or on the flip side, don't know how bad the food they're eating is for them) if they wanted to. FWIW, I don't eat grass feed meat either because I can't afford it. Hell, I am just barely able to afford meat at all and spent most of last summer eating nothing but rice and beans because it's all I could afford. And your assumption that I "come from places where they give out silver spoons," is fairly wrong as well, but people on here have always assumed they know more about my life than they really do, so it's par for the course I suppose. I obviously don't know your financial situations so I'm not going to try and argue that but my comments were more wrt the general american public and not the small percentage of people who are doing things right.
12-05-13, 01:25 PM
#1040
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Have you considered going bulk and getting a chest freezer? It's something I'd like to do in the future, don't have the space or money now though. My uncle has a house/farm in VT and raises his own chickens and turkeys, sometimes raises a pig with friends, etc. I'd like to get in on that but would need a chest freezer. You might then be able to buy poultry at a reduced rate if you buy a bunch.
12-05-13, 01:30 PM
#1041
out walking the earth
I didn't take offense to G's post and would rather people be blunt/honest.
I do agree that education is a huge issue and most people don't know how to eat food that's good for them (or on the flip side, don't know how bad the food they're eating is for them) if they wanted to. FWIW, I don't eat grass feed meat either because I can't afford it. Hell, I am just barely able to afford meat at all and spent most of last summer eating nothing but rice and beans because it's all I could afford. And your assumption that I "come from places where they give out silver spoons," is fairly wrong as well, but people on here have always assumed they know more about my life than they really do, so it's par for the course I suppose. I obviously don't know your financial situations so I'm not going to try and argue that but my comments were more wrt the general american public and not the small percentage of people who are doing things right.
I do agree that education is a huge issue and most people don't know how to eat food that's good for them (or on the flip side, don't know how bad the food they're eating is for them) if they wanted to. FWIW, I don't eat grass feed meat either because I can't afford it. Hell, I am just barely able to afford meat at all and spent most of last summer eating nothing but rice and beans because it's all I could afford. And your assumption that I "come from places where they give out silver spoons," is fairly wrong as well, but people on here have always assumed they know more about my life than they really do, so it's par for the course I suppose. I obviously don't know your financial situations so I'm not going to try and argue that but my comments were more wrt the general american public and not the small percentage of people who are doing things right.
You should read the Connecticut state constitution for fun sometime. The silver spoon thing is clearly named, thus the ridiculously high tax rates.
And of course I was just doing that to push your buttons and show you when you assume things about others there are folks assuming things about you.
None of these issues are particularly simplistic.
12-05-13, 01:33 PM
#1042
out walking the earth
Have you considered going bulk and getting a chest freezer? It's something I'd like to do in the future, don't have the space or money now though. My uncle has a house/farm in VT and raises his own chickens and turkeys, sometimes raises a pig with friends, etc. I'd like to get in on that but would need a chest freezer. You might then be able to buy poultry at a reduced rate if you buy a bunch.
We bought a 7 cubic foot freezer a couple years back when my uncle loaded me up with striped bass. Mostly it gets filled with crap from costco though, or occasionally when we splurge and order game meats online.
12-05-13, 02:15 PM
#1043
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It's funny I live in a white trash working class neighborhood and one of my neighbors suddenly has chickens. And bees. Go figure.
We bought a 7 cubic foot freezer a couple years back when my uncle loaded me up with striped bass. Mostly it gets filled with crap from costco though, or occasionally when we splurge and order game meats online.
We bought a 7 cubic foot freezer a couple years back when my uncle loaded me up with striped bass. Mostly it gets filled with crap from costco though, or occasionally when we splurge and order game meats online.
12-05-13, 02:41 PM
#1045
out walking the earth
12-05-13, 02:42 PM
#1046
out walking the earth
12-05-13, 02:46 PM
#1047
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Do some investigation on natural soil conservation. It has a lot to do with allowing animals to graze naturally. The droppings from these animals is how nature reintroduces nitrogen. You don't get that by planting corn/beans/wheat year after year. These things just suck the life out of the soil and then the farmers end up using all sorts of chemicals (anhydrous ammonia, etc.) to get the ground fit for planting the following year. It's a vicious circle that is ultimately not sustainable long term.
12-05-13, 03:05 PM
#1048
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What I read: "Come by and I'll cook you a bison steak"
12-05-13, 03:24 PM
#1049
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The world hasn't been sustainable for a long time. Without fixation of atmospheric nitrogen population growth would have slowed long ago. I think insecticides and herbicide use needs to be greatly reduced but chemical fertilization is essential in order to feed everyone. Fully organic will only feed the wealthy.
12-05-13, 03:28 PM
#1050
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I keep threatening to put a garden in our back yard. We have an orange tree, which is great. For a little time/money I could come up with a nice vegetable garden. I think it would be a good thing to expose the kids to and I'd like to grow a small portion of my own food.