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  1. #1
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Understanding Computrainer qualifying grids for NCC races

    So I have never used a computrainer much less tried to secure a qualifying spot in a race with it. My question is how does it work and how do they determine a true winner when using this thing?

    My thoughts and they probally are wrong is a 250lb cat 1 cyclist can probally put out alot more power than a 140lb cat1 cyclist but on normal conditions where racing on a road the cyclists power to weight ratio comes into affect these 2 may be exactly the same. However if its hooked into this computrainer it takes away the weight bearing aspect (250lb pushing his weight around on ground vs on a trainer where weight isnt a factor compared to 140lb cyclist) now your just spinning your rear wheel yet both guys have the same resistance setting on the trainer.

    In that senerio the big guy is gonna win everytime due to the amount of power he can generate compared to the smaller guy. So how is it fair for the smaller guys if all the big guys have twice as much raw power but the same when its power to weight?

    Does the trainer take into consideration the riders weight before hand and adjust the tension automatically to coincide with the the riders weight?

    are the resistance set different for different sized riders on the computrainer before hand?

    Im just trying to understand how the computrainer figures out the riders size otherwise the 250lb guy that puts out 400watts will always beat the 140lb guy that puts out 300 watts but if it was on flat ground the smaller guy probally is faster than the big guy due to power to weight ratio

  2. #2
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    I believe that Athens Twilight uses a 3K time trial, your finishing order is your call up order. I do not think it uses a measurement of power as, like you said, it would create an unfair advantage for a guy like myself.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  3. #3
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    I believe that Athens Twilight uses a 3K time trial, your finishing order is your call up order. I do not think it uses a measurement of power as, like you said, it would create an unfair advantage for a guy like myself.

    Athens does use it from my limited research. My whole question is really that if the resistance of every computrainer is set up to the exact same resistance then the bigger guys with the most power are gonna win everytime due to their weight not being a factor in power to weight. it will only be a advantage as they are easily able to generate a heck of alot more power than a smaller guy.
    Thats what im trying to figure out is how they make it fair and even. Does the compurainer sense their weight and automatically adjust resistance accordingly to be equal?

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
    Athens does use it from my limited research. My whole question is really that if the resistance of every computrainer is set up to the exact same resistance then the bigger guys with the most power are gonna win everytime due to their weight not being a factor in power to weight. it will only be a advantage as they are easily able to generate a heck of alot more power than a smaller guy.
    Thats what im trying to figure out is how they make it fair and even. Does the compurainer sense their weight and automatically adjust resistance accordingly to be equal?
    I believe so as if I am not mistaken you have to weigh in at registration with your bike. Just read someone's blog that they use your power output to determine your speed on the course and therefore your overall placing so I guess it is kind of a power output/tt

    I believe that Twilight is the only one that does this. Are you heading up for it?
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  5. #5
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post

    I believe that Twilight is the only one that does this. Are you heading up for it?
    Delray beach Twilight Amateur Finals which is invitation only is using it to determine starting position this year as well as the Pro race. NCC racee.

    Thats what i was thinking because without calculating weight and power, using the same resistance on every computrainer the biggest guys with most power would win everytime but they could actually be middle of the pack racers on a actual road where thy had to push that 250lbs around. Computrainer your not having to push your weight around.

    Thanks by the way for the responses I appreciate you answering this for a Computrainer newbie

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
    Delray beach Twilight Amateur Finals which is invitation only is using it to determine starting position this year as well as the Pro race. NCC racee.

    Thats what i was thinking because without calculating weight and power, using the same resistance on every computrainer the biggest guys with most power would win everytime but they could actually be middle of the pack racers on a actual road where thy had to push that 250lbs around. Computrainer your not having to push your weight around.

    Thanks by the way for the responses I appreciate you answering this for a Computrainer newbie
    Are you doing the P/1 race?
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

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    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Well, it is a crit where raw power can be very helpful (but not necessarily, I'm small and a decent crit racer), but it's also only for determining the start grid, so the impact on the race outcome is probably not too great. It's a crit, not a cross race.

    ETA: I'm planning to go to Athens Twilight, goal is to make the amateur final (top-25 finish in Cat 3). I hadn't realized there was a CompuTrainer qualifier for the amateurs as well.

  8. #8
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Are you doing the P/1 race?

    No Hopefully the Amatuer finals 1/2/3/4... my point is if Im a smaller guy and theres 90-95 riders in the finals but they are only gonna take the top 10-20 best in the computrainer finals and give them starting spots and then the other 70-75 can line up anywhere behind them then its not worth it to spend $100s of extra dollars to go down the night before and do the computrainer thing, but if they are gonna organize the whole 90-95 man field by computrainer finish and then the guys who didnt do the computrainer in the very back it would be worth it to go down a day before. Still waiting on that answer from race directors

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    Well, it is a crit where raw power can be very helpful (but not necessarily, I'm small and a decent crit racer), but it's also only for determining the start grid, so the impact on the race outcome is probably not too great. It's a crit, not a cross race.

    ETA: I'm planning to go to Athens Twilight, goal is to make the amateur final (top-25 finish in Cat 3). I hadn't realized there was a CompuTrainer qualifier for the amateurs as well.
    I don't think there is grolby.
    We would have the option to qualify for the 'show'. TO be in the night race you have to hold a P or 1 license and you are in. If you want a good shot at any decent real estate you should do the qualifier. If not you fight your way from the back.
    There are also a certain number of 2s that are invited into the night race.
    Not sure how the amateur finals works though. Great goal for sure.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

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    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm pretty sure that the only way to get into the amateur final is a top placing in your cat in the morning - top 10 Cat 4/M45+, top 15 M35+, top 25 Cat 3, top 35 Cat 1/2. Even if that's wrong and you can get a grid position by the CompuTrain event, it hardly seems worth it. It's just a call up, and if you're going to get dropped because you started in the back, you don't belong in the race anyway. Obviously it's better to start near the front, but it's not worth hundreds of dollars!

  11. #11
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Amateur finals is a Invitation only of 90-95 races from cat 1-4. They are having a grid qualifier for the Amateur final for starting position also but say it is also optional. Last year there was a split in the Am finals due to a crash. It would be alot of wasted money to go down start in the back, get split cause of a crash and be pulled a few laps later.

  12. #12
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
    No Hopefully the Amatuer finals 1/2/3/4... my point is if Im a smaller guy and theres 90-95 riders in the finals but they are only gonna take the top 10-20 best in the computrainer finals and give them starting spots and then the other 70-75 can line up anywhere behind them then its not worth it to spend $100s of extra dollars to go down the night before and do the computrainer thing, but if they are gonna organize the whole 90-95 man field by computrainer finish and then the guys who didnt do the computrainer in the very back it would be worth it to go down a day before. Still waiting on that answer from race directors
    Athens amateurs are selected by qualifying races that morning. Top 10 4s, NN 3s, NN2s etc. The computrainer races are for the P1 Main only and done the night before Twilight. And they CTs take into consideration rider weight.

    -- edit. If the Main field isn't full they will let select 2s race at the discretion of the organizer.

  13. #13
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    Okay, I'm pretty sure that the only way to get into the amateur final is a top placing in your cat in the morning
    this year no qualifying at all. Invitation on past race performance. On sunday they are gonna have category racing at a different location. Saturday is Am finals, Womens Pro finals, and Mens pro Finals.

    It would just suck to be in the back of 90-95 man field that gets split before you can even start racing.

  14. #14
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
    this year no qualifying at all. Invitation on past race performance. On sunday they are gonna have category racing at a different location.
    That's not what the website says. http://www.athenstwilight.com/schedu...file.php?ID=18. Where are you getting this info? There are no events AT ALL on Sunday.

    Edit: I'm also trying to think of a remotely realistic way in which the promoters are going to invite sufficiently qualified Cat 4, Cat 3 racers into this event, and I'm not thinking of anything. It doesn't make sense to me. I do want to know what's happening, so a link to this info (again, the official site contradicts you!!) would be nice.
    Last edited by grolby; 02-19-13 at 10:23 AM.

  15. #15
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    That's not what the website says. www.athenstwilight.com/schedule-profile.php?ID=18. Where are you getting this info? There are no events AT ALL on Sunday.
    Jax is talking about Delray Beach GP
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

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    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    All right, I got confused. Sorry Jax!!

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Maybe I'll come down and haggle the crap out of you guys!!!

    Or race on a Cat 5 1 Day
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  18. #18
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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  19. #19
    Dazed and Confused JAX_11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Maybe I'll come down and haggle the crap out of you guys!!!

    Or race on a Cat 5 1 Day
    Awesome.

  20. #20
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    am i the only one who thinks an amateur finals race is a bad idea???? "yeah that 4 and that 3, lets throw them into a 1/2 race that is nothing like the race they are used to, after racing their race, and just laugh at the resulting race". there's more to a 1/2 race than just pure power.


    also on the weight thing, w/kg is less important on flat land, its more about w/cda.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Not sure jsut.
    In theory I can hear what you are saying and there is probably some truth to it but in my experience I have ridden with some strong 3/4 rider (that little dude grolby is very strong, and little )
    Another thing I can comment on is that there are a lot of p/1 riders that handle their bikes like new Cat 5s (this is based on personal experience of me chewing a few of them out).
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

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    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    yeah but a cat 3 crit and a cat 1/2 crit are two different beast n terms of knowing what to do. like i said its more than just strnength. that corner might have been a 23 mph corner in the 3 race, now its a 25-26 if the 3 or 4 takes it as a 23 mph corner they're wasting a ton of energy
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  23. #23
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Maybe I'll come down and haggle the crap out of you guys!!!

    Or race on a Cat 5 1 Day
    Twilight????? Come on fatboy. You can work the Krystal concession stand.

  24. #24
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    That's not what the website says. http://www.athenstwilight.com/schedu...file.php?ID=18. Where are you getting this info? There are no events AT ALL on Sunday.

    Edit: I'm also trying to think of a remotely realistic way in which the promoters are going to invite sufficiently qualified Cat 4, Cat 3 racers into this event, and I'm not thinking of anything. It doesn't make sense to me. I do want to know what's happening, so a link to this info (again, the official site contradicts you!!) would be nice.
    Sure there is, it's called Roswell. I have a history of miserable failure that race. Par for the course really.

    And yes, I'm trying to keep mixing up Athens and Del Ray. Maybe I can work in Speed Week too. If you qualify in Augusta can you go to Spartanburg and race the P1 field?

  25. #25
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Athens uses power to weight for placing. Gutt got a call-up a few years back, and he can't weight more than 130 pounds soaking wet.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

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