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  1. #1
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Another... I want to race thread (Seriously)

    I want to race

    No one in my "real" life understands why. Regardless of all the valid reasons I shouldn't (e.g., money, pain, humiliation, and more money) the insatiable thirst to compete is there and must be satisfied.

    My real concern is the bike and the dilemma around building it.

    So I got this really sweet frame.
    IMG_4099.jpg

    And.... it's not my size

    Not a shameless plug, but it is on Ebay if your interested (Ending Tomorrow)

    The Real Deal

    I have been itching to build a nice rig I can train and race with. The dilemma is racing and the eventuality of crashing.
    This will be a budget build around $2k or under if I can manage. I probably almost certainly won't be able to replace a $1500 (Used) frame if it gets wrecked.


    FWIW, my options are pretty dead set on a 2011 Specialized S-works SL3 OSBB, Cannondale Supersix Hi-mod, Giant Tcr Advanced ISP.
    Throw caution to the wind, would you race your dream frame if you knew you certainly couldn't replace it?
    Or
    Drink the koolaid and build a Caad10?



    I probably will ignore comments I don't like... but hey, if your racing you obviously got more issues than me, or money. I'm guessing the latter.

  2. #2
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    lolwut?

    if you want to race, go race. The bike makes little difference. (seriously)

  3. #3
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    lolwut?

    if you want to race, go race. The bike makes little difference. (seriously)
    See... I removed myself out of the equation. I was hoping you could fill in the blank. Would you? I would do all kinds of stupid.

  4. #4
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    I have no idea what that means.

  5. #5
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    Take racing out of the equation, I wouldn't ride anything I couldn't afford to replace. You never know when a dog, car, another cyclist, and/or a girl scout is going to crash you out. Then what do you do---take up running?

  6. #6
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    If Budget is real tight dont forget the following:

    Race license:$60
    Races Range from 20-40 so an average of $30 a race in this area.
    Travel, Hotels, Gas and Food etc.
    Tires: 40-60 a pop depending on if you use LBS or online

    I would get the cheapest bike you would want to ride and worry about upgrading the bike down the road when you know exactly what you want to do which will probably be wheels, coach, powermeter etc.

    Oh btw I don't really know what I am talking about but I think its good advice

  7. #7
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    Why not spend a lot less on the bike? Haven't done my first race yet (T-10 days), but the cost of the bike isn't the only cost to consider. If you don't have the money, placing such importance on the bike seems to be setting yourself up for heartache.

    Edit: Beaten

  8. #8
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    here's the answer:

    42

    and in the OP's case
    41


  9. #9
    VeloSIRraptor
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    feel free to ignore my comment as you probably won't like it... or actually pay attention if you want to learn something.

    lemme clarify - we are all too fat for this sport.
    we most of us all ride bikes that we can't _really_ afford to replace-with-an-equal were it to be totaled out
    we all really want to race
    (all of the above are true for enough of us that the exceptions to the statements are few and far between)

    here's the thing - those of us who race have found ways to make it happen because we want to race badly enough that we'll make sacrifices for it.

    I'm not young, I'm not rich, and I've certainly got more time constraints than you.
    additionally I'll be racing a whole ton this year because I'm choosing to make a lot of sacrifices because I Actually Want to Race.

    My dream bike is one that's free - and next year it'll probably be a 4 year old, aluminum ex-pro team bike that's been in a shed for a few years (finger crossed for this coming true)
    It's going to have some 4 year old Sram Rival components on it, because I paid for them 4 years ago and they aren't broken enough to force replacements.

    I wouldn't race some bike I couldn't replace, because the way this sport goes is that now and then you'll have to replace your bike/wheels/components/kit - and if you can't make the ante at this sports start line you aren't a racer - you are an observer.

    If you want to be a racer and are worried about money, don't go buy a caad10 or a powertap or garmin- go buy a used caad7 frameset for +/-150, 9 speed components, a $20 wireless computer, and then work on pedaling it until you win.

    So, you seriously want to race? Go make it happen, I promise there's nothing that is keeping you from racing you can't get around.
    <rant over>
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  10. #10
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Unlike the Hot or Not Thread, the people that hang out in the 33 will tell you that all you need to race is a bike that has wheels that roll, gears that shift, and brakes that stop. And a license, but you can get a 1-day at the race. And a helmet. And some safety pins, but they'll give those to you.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    feel free to ignore my comment as you probably won't like it... or actually pay attention if you want to learn something.

    lemme clarify - we are all too fat for this sport.
    we most of us all ride bikes that we can't _really_ afford to replace-with-an-equal were it to be totaled out
    we all really want to race
    (all of the above are true for enough of us that the exceptions to the statements are few and far between)

    here's the thing - those of us who race have found ways to make it happen because we want to race badly enough that we'll make sacrifices for it.

    I'm not young, I'm not rich, and I've certainly got more time constraints than you.
    additionally I'll be racing a whole ton this year because I'm choosing to make a lot of sacrifices because I Actually Want to Race.

    My dream bike is one that's free - and next year it'll probably be a 4 year old, aluminum ex-pro team bike that's been in a shed for a few years (finger crossed for this coming true)
    It's going to have some 4 year old Sram Rival components on it, because I paid for them 4 years ago and they aren't broken enough to force replacements.

    I wouldn't race some bike I couldn't replace, because the way this sport goes is that now and then you'll have to replace your bike/wheels/components/kit - and if you can't make the ante at this sports start line you aren't a racer - you are an observer.

    If you want to be a racer and are worried about money, don't go buy a caad10 or a powertap or garmin- go buy a used caad7 frameset for +/-150, 9 speed components, a $20 wireless computer, and then work on pedaling it until you win.

    So, you seriously want to race? Go make it happen, I promise there's nothing that is keeping you from racing you can't get around.
    <rant over>
    ^ what he said.

    btw why ask the question if you're not going to take into account the answers you don't want to hear? You're basically being pretty disrespectful of the others here. There's a lot of experience here, coaches, national champions, teachers, doers. With an open mind a racer could come in here and get, realistically, very good coaching and racing advice, all for free. That would take seeing some unpleasant truths. Unfortunately those kinds of truths (and therefore the advice that contains them) may not be fun to read.

    I think you posted before but are you assembling the bike and all that? Do you have a helmet, shorts, jersey (that aren't pro team or another team's stuff - it really should be generic to be legal unless you belong to a team/club)? Shoes? Pedals?

    Do you plan on racing this year?

    Will you have someone fit you or will you try and fit yourself to your new bike? Did you know what size frame you were buying before but not realize it didn't fit?

    Do you have a bike now? If so are you doing any kind of riding?

    Usually I tell people to be patient, to take their time. In your case I'd say "Get a bike this week, making sure it fits. Do whatever it takes to make sure it fits and it'll fit for a while as you adapt to the bike. Start riding it."

    You can't race by planning on paper. You need to get on the bike and ride, to figure out what you don't even know you don't know yet, and to start figuring out all that stuff.

  12. #12
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    feel free to ignore my comment as you probably won't like it... or actually pay attention if you want to learn something.

    lemme clarify - we are all too fat for this sport.
    we most of us all ride bikes that we can't _really_ afford to replace-with-an-equal were it to be totaled out
    we all really want to race
    (all of the above are true for enough of us that the exceptions to the statements are few and far between)

    here's the thing - those of us who race have found ways to make it happen because we want to race badly enough that we'll make sacrifices for it.

    I'm not young, I'm not rich, and I've certainly got more time constraints than you.
    additionally I'll be racing a whole ton this year because I'm choosing to make a lot of sacrifices because I Actually Want to Race.

    My dream bike is one that's free - and next year it'll probably be a 4 year old, aluminum ex-pro team bike that's been in a shed for a few years (finger crossed for this coming true)
    It's going to have some 4 year old Sram Rival components on it, because I paid for them 4 years ago and they aren't broken enough to force replacements.

    I wouldn't race some bike I couldn't replace, because the way this sport goes is that now and then you'll have to replace your bike/wheels/components/kit - and if you can't make the ante at this sports start line you aren't a racer - you are an observer.

    If you want to be a racer and are worried about money, don't go buy a caad10 or a powertap or garmin- go buy a used caad7 frameset for +/-150, 9 speed components, a $20 wireless computer, and then work on pedaling it until you win.

    So, you seriously want to race? Go make it happen, I promise there's nothing that is keeping you from racing you can't get around.
    <rant over>

    Can't race a GT car on an Autocross budget.

    Good perspective, I'm going to reevaluate the budget and see what more I can do with the same amount. Maybe better wheels.
    After all, it will hurt less when I get dropped on a less-than setup. I will console myself in that.
    Reminds me of this awesome video.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    In car racing, equipment can make a big difference. In bike racing, not so much ............ except for the engine.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  14. #14
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    FYI a local team would put the hurt on everyone on their stock Raleighs with non-aero Mavic wheels. They upgraded their sponsorship after a while but the first year or two they were on (non-Raleigh) bikes that wouldn't pass muster here, well below a CAAD10 type of frame. In fact I'd say they were well below the first CAADs and even below the 2.8s that Cannondale made before they started with the CAADs. They were closest to the 3.0 Road frames that Cannondale made back in 1990 or so, at least as far as specs go. Didn't matter. They spanked people on their 20 year old design frames. My teammate's CAAD8 is a dream compared to those other bikes.

    In bike racing the engine matters only because you need a minimum to stay in a race. The rider has to be smart and skilled enough to utilize the engine and therefore the bike.

    In mass start bike racing bigger bike budgets don't mean much. It's all about the rider.

    There's no escaping it - if you don't make it as a regular amateur bike racer it has nothing to do with the bike. It's all about you, partially your fitness, mainly your smarts.

  15. #15
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    Can't race a GT car on an Autocross budget.

    Good perspective, I'm going to reevaluate the budget and see what more I can do with the same amount. Maybe better wheels.
    After all, it will hurt less when I get dropped on a less-than setup. I will console myself in that.
    Reminds me of this awesome video.
    I guess you already know everything, nothing we can help with then... move along.
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  16. #16
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    I want to race

    No one in my "real" life understands why. Regardless of all the valid reasons I shouldn't (e.g., money, pain, humiliation, and more money) the insatiable thirst to compete is there and must be satisfied.

    My real concern is the bike and the dilemma around building it.

    So I got this really sweet frame.
    IMG_4099.jpg

    And.... it's not my size

    Not a shameless plug, but it is on Ebay if your interested (Ending Tomorrow)

    The Real Deal

    I have been itching to build a nice rig I can train and race with. The dilemma is racing and the eventuality of crashing.
    This will be a budget build around $2k or under if I can manage. I probably almost certainly won't be able to replace a $1500 (Used) frame if it gets wrecked.


    FWIW, my options are pretty dead set on a 2011 Specialized S-works SL3 OSBB, Cannondale Supersix Hi-mod, Giant Tcr Advanced ISP.
    Throw caution to the wind, would you race your dream frame if you knew you certainly couldn't replace it?
    Or
    Drink the koolaid and build a Caad10?



    I probably will ignore comments I don't like... but hey, if your racing you obviously got more issues than me, or money. I'm guessing the latter.

  17. #17
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    I started racing in 2008 on a 1987 Univega Gran Sport. I spent some money to build a new pair of cheap but lighter wheels, and I upgraded from 6 to 7-speed downtube shifters. I even installed some Kelly Take-Offs so they were up on the handlebars instead of on the downtube. That bike started at about 24 lbs. After my modifications, it was down to a mere 23 lbs. And I raced the hell out of that bike. I did okay. A podium, a few top-10s, a few other races where I got curbstomped bad.

    Equipment has a role to play, sure, but it's pretty much the last priority after your engine and racing tactics. The bike has to fit, and be in good working order. That's it. You (OP) think this is an expensive sport, that money buys you a better place in the finishing order. It doesn't have to be, and it definitely does not.

    I think you need to race ASAP. You think you know what bike racing is all about. That's fine, I thought I did, too, when I started. Once you start doing it, once you start to get an idea of what you don't know, the people here might be able to actually help you with your questions. Right now, you don't even know what questions you should be asking.

  18. #18
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    After all, it will hurt less when I get dropped on a less-than setup.
    Like this, for example. You think your legs care about money? LOL.

  19. #19
    Too Fat for This Sport Diegomayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    ^ what he said.

    btw why ask the question if you're not going to take into account the answers you don't want to hear? You're basically being pretty disrespectful of the others here. There's a lot of experience here, coaches, national champions, teachers, doers. With an open mind a racer could come in here and get, realistically, very good coaching and racing advice, all for free. That would take seeing some unpleasant truths. Unfortunately those kinds of truths (and therefore the advice that contains them) may not be fun to read.

    I think you posted before but are you assembling the bike and all that? Do you have a helmet, shorts, jersey (that aren't pro team or another team's stuff - it really should be generic to be legal unless you belong to a team/club)? Shoes? Pedals?

    Do you plan on racing this year?

    Will you have someone fit you or will you try and fit yourself to your new bike? Did you know what size frame you were buying before but not realize it didn't fit?

    Do you have a bike now? If so are you doing any kind of riding?

    Usually I tell people to be patient, to take their time. In your case I'd say "Get a bike this week, making sure it fits. Do whatever it takes to make sure it fits and it'll fit for a while as you adapt to the bike. Start riding it."

    You can't race by planning on paper. You need to get on the bike and ride, to figure out what you don't even know you don't know yet, and to start figuring out all that stuff.
    I was just being a wise-guy, I don't wish to offend anyone who can offer good avice. I troll alot of the threads including those stickied by Botto.

    I do ride now, not as much as I'd like but around 400mi/month with current schedule.
    The bike I plan to build is going to be a dedicated racing rig pretty much. I will ride it to train of course but I am at the point where I have been itching to get a really nice setup but am seriously worried about the distinct possibility of crashes.
    This bike will be the only frills I get until I finish school, so I am tempted to build it around a high-end frame but am weary.
    I've ridden pace-lines and am somewhat comfortable riding in them, my main concern would be fast cornering in a pack. I have never cornered 23mph+ with more than 1 person abreast with me. Is the crashing concern more serious in Crit racing than road racing?

  20. #20
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    I have never cornered 23mph+ with more than 1 person abreast with me. Is the crashing concern more serious in Crit racing than road racing?
    no. there is risk of crashing in every discipline. As for the (lack of) comfort cornering you might check into any racing clinics in your area and/or see if you can practice cornering drills with other inclined folks in your club/area...

  21. #21
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    Unlike the Hot or Not Thread, the people that hang out in the 33 will tell you that all you need to race is a bike that has wheels that roll, gears that shift, and brakes that stop. And a license, but you can get a 1-day at the race. And a helmet. And some safety pins, but they'll give those to you.
    +1 million

    I raced my first season (and tied with my most successful to date as far as placings go) on this back in 08:



    and it was still 7-sp shimano 600 back then.


    Now I race this:



    While I'm not gonna lie and say that I can't tell the difference between the bikes, it's not as pronounced as you would imagine, and nearly meaningless in non-sprinting, non-climbing situations.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  22. #22
    Senior Member Jancouver's Avatar
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    Cervelo huh? I had two of those and sold them both. I also had Specialized, Cannondale, BMC, Pinarello and few others. I also tried light wheels, deep wheels and everything from Campy to SRAM just to realize that I have two problems.
    A) I have family, job and life outside of cycling and I'm not willing to train 10-20h per week.
    B) I'm too big/tall for this sport and no bike/equipment will help me fix those two issues.

    I still ride my bike because I like it but racing is just fun. Have fun and dont sweat it.

    Edit:

    this is how I'm training this week

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jancouver; 02-27-13 at 10:19 PM.
    "Cycling is primitive. You just have to pedal" - AK
    "I had lactic acid coming out of my ears" - FC
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that?!" - JV

  23. #23
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diegomayra View Post
    I was just being a wise-guy, I don't wish to offend anyone who can offer good avice. I troll alot of the threads including those stickied by Botto.

    I do ride now, not as much as I'd like but around 400mi/month with current schedule.
    The bike I plan to build is going to be a dedicated racing rig pretty much. I will ride it to train of course but I am at the point where I have been itching to get a really nice setup but am seriously worried about the distinct possibility of crashes.
    This bike will be the only frills I get until I finish school, so I am tempted to build it around a high-end frame but am weary.
    I've ridden pace-lines and am somewhat comfortable riding in them, my main concern would be fast cornering in a pack. I have never cornered 23mph+ with more than 1 person abreast with me. Is the crashing concern more serious in Crit racing than road racing?
    let's get this straight: you are so ignorant that you don't know you are ignorant, yet you come here with a wise-guy attitude and expect us to treat you seriously? What, do we amuse you, wise guy?


    -----

    As for cornering 23mph with one other person. Go out there and learn. Corner solo and go fast. Any corner you see that's clear of traffic, rail it and see how you go.

    Last year we were going into a corner at 25mph+ and a guy actually bumped into me. Nothing happened as I stopped his momentum and he bounced off of me. Instead of handwringing, why don't you go find a race clinic where you can learn something?

  24. #24
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    If you wreck the 'dream' frame you can always move the components to whatever used frame you pick up cheap as a replacement.

    I'm currently riding/racing my old Caad4 and while I'm saving for a new bike, I'm also fully prepared mentally to part with some of that savings to purchase an aluminum replacement if need be, before I've save enough for the new dream bike.

    I've got a seriously prioritized list of where I can/need to spend my money. It starts with 'keeping me on the road' stuff (tires, tubes, pads, chains), then 'making me faster' (training aids like nutrition, books, club/race fees), making the bike faster and those 'wants' are at the bottom of the list.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  25. #25
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    1)Cheap frame
    2)Cheap group set
    3)Powermeter
    4)Nice wheels

    What else do you need? I have a serious crash at least once per year in a crit.....has not broke the bank yet
    Cat 3 pack fodder and I like it.
    Funsport Bikes Cycling Team

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