ljrichar

I agree. It's just that some are saying that the numbers don't have to be precise. Isn't that the point of using power vs just HR.

HMF

He raises a valid point. Testing is training, not just for the physiological aspects, but preparing the mind for long bouts of discomfort

ngchi

Not exactly. They are measuring two different things.

ljrichar

Oh really? Thanks man

plantrob

Well sure. When I asked the question, I knew that I'd get that answer . But I got some others too. Mostly based on conjecture, not actual experience with having tried the 20-minute test with and without the 5 minutes. I guess I should have expected that as well. So yeah, I'll do the proper test some time*. By then, my previous results will be ancient history, so I still won't know how much the extra 5-minute effort mattered.
Mostly I was just curious - thanks for humoring my curiosity for a spell.

*The fact I haven't done that is at least as much a time issue as an aversion to pain: quite consistently, my riding consists of one-hour-ish rides during the week (lunch rides), and a single long climby ride on the weekend. I don't want to put the test into my long ride, so I have an hour for the test ride. The way roads work out around here, the actual test is pretty much all "out", which means I still have the "back" stretch of the ride to do after the test. Doing just the 20-minute test, that fits OK into a one-hour ride. An extra 5 minute effort + recovery starts to stretch it.

shovelhd

So you don't race?

HMF

Ok, well, what I do when I test FTP is the Friel 30 minute test (no 5 minute blowout, just lay it all out in the test). Supposedly that "IS" FTP, because with race-time motivation you could hold your 30 minute power for 60 minutes. However, when I do the test I find that the average I have at 20 minutes tends to be the average I have at 30 minutes +/- a watt or 2. So there's your answer, according to me.

There have been times, though, when I've gone out to do the 30 minute test and gave up at 18, 20, or 25 minutes because I know the average isn't going to go any higher, and I did't have the mental fortitude to finish it off. That usually happens early the season. What I've done in those instances is take the average from that and subtract a few watts, and that's good enough for training purposes. That said, if I can't finish a 30 minute test, as far as I'm concerned I don't have a functional threshold, I just have some number that I use for training.

canam73

I think he is just taking everyone else to seriously.

ngchi

You dont' have to be a jerk...i mean, you asked a question and I answered. HR and Power are two pretty different things.

Scummer

Since he mentioned an aversion to pain, I don't think he does.

shovelhd

If so, then why is he in the 33 asking questions?

mattm

Jeez, tough crowd.

ljrichar

Not being a jerk. You just missed my point. I don't know if it's because you don't know much about power or you're just messing with me.

Jobiensis

Don't know his reasons, but in my experience, there seems to be more useful training information here than the training forum or the road forum.

hammy56

ngchi

You're fatigued. How does your HR react. How do your legs react? How are power numbers reflected in this?

You do a 30s interval. How does your HR react? How are power numbers reflected in this?

They are different tools, you can't really compare the two honestly.

plantrob

I do. But not nearly as much as the rest of you guys do. So it's not the primary focus of my cycling sport enjoyment - just one of the aspects of it. I hang out at this forum because I'm a performance-oriented and competitive-minded cyclist, even if my race tally for this year may not exceed 10.

shovelhd

A racer is a racer. I would still test.

ljrichar

I rolled my eyes because you're stating the obvious. My original point was that a lot of people start out with heart rate monitors then progress to power meters for more accurate measurements. So if you're going to half-a$$ your testing or guesstimate, you might as well go back to using HR or RPE.

MDcatV

echappist don't you do an ftp test every wednesday and saturday?

AzTallRider

I've done it both ways, and I don't believe any reduced accuracy from skipping the lead up intervals is an issue. Consistency is the key, so I do my tests on the same (uninterrupted) stretch of road, at about the same time of day, with the nutrition as close to the same as possible, etc. Wind is a variable, but that effects speed more than the validity of the power measurement. I do a 30' warmup, then the test, and I usually have some tempo work assigned following the test. Plus, I have to get back to my car, since I drive to the good test location. As we all know, testing is training, and this routine fits into a cohesive training schedule better than the "by the book" test. Particularly since my test is typically done in a rest week - again for consistencies sake. Less testing during race season, since it is more likely to mess with training/taper. Towards the end of a taper week, I'm going to be doing an opener about the time I would be doing the test.

plantrob

Thanks for sharing that, AZTR. Sounds like your routine is somewhat like mine, although I'm not as disciplined about my training schedule, so I may never be as well rested when testing as I really should be. I do try to seek out times when there's a good head wind on my testing stretch - around here, rollers are unavoidable, and a headwind makes it easier to keep maintain power output on the downhill bits. Good thing that's the prevailing wind direction, so I'm usually OK.

echappist

Well, testing is training, and since i'm training to improve effort at and above threshold, you are indeed correct, though i don't really do 25min efforts at ftp anymore.

Otherwise, it's a monthly trip to Shenandoah, where i climb from front royal to dickey ridge (have it at rkwaki) 2x. Too bad they are currently snowed out...

MDcatV

just fooling with you echappist, i know you like the #s.

my team was planning to ride out there saturday but the snow kept us local.

shovelhd

I drive to my test site and do a 20 minute warmup. The test road is an out and back with a flip turn in the middle. The prevailing wind is either a headwind out or a cross. The flip turn evens things out. After the test is done I roll back to my truck. It usually takes twice as long. I have nothing more.