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  1. #51
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
    grow up
    Why don't you head back over to A&S? This is a racing forum anyway.

  2. #52
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
    grow up
    Wow. As far as growing up is concerned, your behaviour in this thread makes it pretty clear that you have plenty of scope in that department.

    And for the record, your picture wasn't "good"; it was pretty dull, averagely composed, no senseof motion or excitement.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  3. #53
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Dude, if you can't see why the edited picture looks better, you need a lot of work.

    And FWIW, I'm not a professional photographer, but I've won a number of contests, sold photographs for publication, and have photos in a number of magazines, newspapers, and Corporate publications.
    This is very true. When he bought the new car he wanted to get some really racy pictures for Porsche-A-Holics Annonymous so Merlin flew me to Jacksonville and we recreated the Whitesnake video. The only downfall was my big fat ass put a dent in the hood while I was straddled across it...
    And the baby oil was tough to take off the front bumper...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  4. #54
    Senior Member JohnKScott's Avatar
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  5. #55
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    You have to be careful with this. Your eye has its own limitations and light response which is quite nonlinear. Cameras capture light linearly. So... many edits (including HDR) could be argued to bring the photo to what is actually observed.
    Fair enough, but you know what I meant. Nature did a big review on image integrity a few years back after it was discovered people were publishing significantly altered images.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    I would argue "correct color" is quite the falacy. There's quite a range of cone responses (genetically determined in almost all instances) The "average" human cone response.



    Cameras, with their CCD's built from? silica, have their own color responses, which are typically heavily weighted to IR.


    Then there's the spatial disparity in human vision. Each cone is not weighted equally in space. Hence the fovea and reduced discriminability in your peripheral vision and blind spots.


    Then there's intensity normalization (HDR replicates this to a degree) performed cell-by-cell and in small networks of rods and cones, which can't easily be replicated in consumer devices.

    So much more. I spent a few years studying vision (from the brain's perspective, not the eye's). I'm not saying there's a right and wrong way to any photography methods/elements, just that I wouldn't think about photos as capturing a scene as a person's eye would.
    You see with your eyes but you perceive with your mind. When you start considering people with Tetrachromacy or Synesthesia it get's really weird.

  6. #56
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
    grow up
    Thank you for your contribution to this forum, but it's pretty clear this isn't the place for you. Feel free to see yourself out if you have nothing further to add.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    ...

    Here is an original with a flash overpowering the sun, as I was talking about (not my pic). I'm not taking the time to find a sample with perfect composition, but this is one way to do it (and is, as you say more of a cycling portrait). Certainly more than a billion ways to skin this cat.
    http://jahicks.zenfolio.com/p6344917...b545#h6f52b545
    Not photography related (way over my head, though my dad would like), but does that girl know her sponsor's logo is on upside down?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  8. #58
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    There's an opportunity here for a photography technique thread related to racing, which seems interesting and helpful. I'd suggest this continue in that vein.


    You hear me Brian? OK, that's not what I meant...

  9. #59
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    There's an opportunity here for a photography technique thread related to racing, which seems interesting and helpful. I'd suggest this continue in that vein.


    You hear me Brian? OK, that's not what I meant...
    Hey now...

    The fact you can read the logo with the sun behind her I believe is the whole point of this lighting discussion.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  10. #60
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Volunteered a local TT tonight and brought my camera. This is the best one I got. It's not easy getting things sharp while moving a camera at 1/40. Many blurry images. I tried to bring up the shadows a little and reduce the whites since most of the light was on his back. This is at a little downhill section, I would guess 25-35 mph at this point. I'm shooting from the other side of the road, using a 50mm prime lens on a 7D (1.6 crop sensor) so effective focal length is 80mm.

    EDIT: Apparently I don't know how to use forums. I only wanted to upload one image (1-3). Sorry.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by rankin116; 06-12-13 at 10:35 PM.

  11. #61
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    There's an opportunity here for a photography technique thread related to racing, which seems interesting and helpful. I'd suggest this continue in that vein.
    I like this idea.

  12. #62
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    Volunteered a local TT tonight and brought my camera. This is the best one I got. It's not easy getting things sharp while moving a camera at 1/40. Many blurry images. I tried to bring up the shadows a little and reduce the whites since most of the light was on his back. This is at a little downhill section, I would guess 25-35 mph at this point. I'm shooting from the other side of the road, using a 50mm prime lens on a 7D (1.6 crop sensor) so effective focal length is 80mm.

    EDIT: Apparently I don't know how to use forums. I only wanted to upload one image (1-3). Sorry.
    Pan shots take practice... a tripod (or monopod) helps, to align the pan precisely with the trajectory of the subject.

  13. #63
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    thread name change...carry on.

  14. #64
    Annoyed. Andy Somnifac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    Photo editing annoys me - photographs should be accurate representations of the real thing. If there was blinding sun in the background the photo should show that. The worst I've seen was on here from some Texan who wanted to make everything related to Lance glow... wonder if he still does that.
    Telling someone what a photograph *should* be is like telling someone what brand bike they should ride, or what chain lube to use. That is the beauty of photography, it can be someone completely different for each and every person.

    This argument was front and center among photographers in the 19th century. You'd think it would have been settled by now. The easy answer is: "Don't like it? Don't look at it."
    Meh.

  15. #65
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    you can't unsee something.

  16. #66
    Annoyed. Andy Somnifac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    you can't unsee something.
    I haven't even seen them, and I want to unsee rkwaki's boudoir photos.
    Meh.

  17. #67
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    . It's not easy getting things sharp while moving a camera at 1/40. Many blurry images.
    Practice helps. There are a couple of technique things also.

    1) Pan with the subject before and after you press the shutter, so it's a continuous smooth movement, where you press the shutter in the middle, and continue to follow through,

    2) flash helps. Shoot in aperature mode, (using the aperature setting and iso to get the right shutter speed) with flash. The camera will expose the background based on the ambient light, and the subject based on the flash. The flash will help freeze the subject, but have virtually no eefect on the background because the flash falls off dramatically with distance. Obviously this works better the closer you can be to the subject, and the more powerful the flash. You may also need to play with the fill flash ratio (flash exposure compensation) to get it right.

    3) Turn off image stabilization, or put it in the right mode, if you have it. Early image stabilization didn't work with panning, and will hurt rather than help. More advanced image stabilization has a panning setting that stabilizes vertically, but allows you to pan horizontally.

    4) play with shutter speed to get the most pleasing effect. For example 1/60 of a second above would still show ice motion, but the rider would be sharper. Slow it down and you get a more painterly effect.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  18. #68
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Also, if you're shooting in auto focus, make sure you're in the right autofocus mode. With Canon, you want the predictive focus mode.

    In a situation where you know exactly where you're going to shoot the picture, you can prefocus on that spot,focus lock (pressing down halfway on the shutter button, or the focus lock button if you've got it set up on a seperate control in the custom function menu) and you'll be focused on the rider when he hits that spot, and you pull the trigger. with this technique, you don't need the predictive focus mode.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  19. #69
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Pan shots take practice... a tripod (or monopod) helps, to align the pan precisely with the trajectory of the subject.
    Meh.

    Depends on what kind of head you have on the tripod.

    One of these, ( or a good video head) yes:



    typical head that comes on your average consumer grade tripod, you're not going to get a smooth panning motion.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  20. #70
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=merlinextraligh;15737691typical head that comes on your average consumer grade tripod, you're not going to get a smooth panning motion.[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't need video-level smoothness, you just use it as a guide to help align the angle of your pan. Keep the knobs loose. It works.

  21. #71
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Pan shots take practice... a tripod (or monopod) helps, to align the pan precisely with the trajectory of the subject.
    I have found that most motorsports shooters don't use any camera support for panning. Honestly, I think it causes an unnatural motion for the shooter, as you have to move around the outside of a circle to follow the viewfinder. Although, now that I think about it, there are some ideas I have for a rolling support that would place the axis of rotation in your spine. Hmm. Monopod isn't too bad, but you still have to watch out for hitting the stick when you're spinning on your natural axis, as it will have to lean over for you.

    At any rate, I point my belly button at the sweet spot where I expect to get the best shots, square my hips and feet to that, twist my shoulders and hips toward the oncoming racers, and follow through. I will often let the camera fire off continuous so I don't have the shutter press in most of the shots, and at 10fps, something will look good with respect to crank orientation.

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Practice helps. There are a couple of technique things also.
    2) flash helps. Shoot in aperature mode, (using the aperature setting and iso to get the right shutter speed) with flash. The camera will expose the background based on the ambient light, and the subject based on the flash. The flash will help freeze the subject, but have virtually no eefect on the background because the flash falls off dramatically with distance. Obviously this works better the closer you can be to the subject, and the more powerful the flash. You may also need to play with the fill flash ratio (flash exposure compensation) to get it right.
    I usually shoot in shutter priority or manual, as the amount of implied motion is what I'm most interested in controlling. I do want a narrow aperture though, so I make sure that I'm at f/11 or smaller (f/16, f/22, etc). I find that this gets the background into focus more, and provides better streaking for the blur. It also makes for more dust bunny spot removal in LR though

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Also, if you're shooting in auto focus, make sure you're in the right autofocus mode. With Canon, you want the predictive focus mode.

    In a situation where you know exactly where you're going to shoot the picture, you can prefocus on that spot,focus lock (pressing down halfway on the shutter button, or the focus lock button if you've got it set up on a seperate control in the custom function menu) and you'll be focused on the rider when he hits that spot, and you pull the trigger. with this technique, you don't need the predictive focus mode.
    Yep, shooting oncoming cyclists, I find that AI Servo (Canon) keeps up pretty well on my 1D. For panning, I will often focus on something in the road, then not focus again until I change my scene. I use back button focus, so it's easy to stop AF.
    Last edited by waterrockets; 06-13-13 at 08:08 AM.

  22. #72
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    I want to get one of these for a bike race start sometime. (my daughter) click for full size, if interested


  23. #73
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    ^ The reason I suggest apperature mode is that shooting with flash on a Canon EOS camera it's going to manage the background exposure off the ambient light.

    Shooting in shutter mode it's going to do the exposure off the flash on the subject, nd the background exposure can be less than pleasing, depending on the ambient light.

    Admittedly, you've got to futz with the apperture, and/or iso to make it give you the shutter speed you want, as oppossed to just dialing it in.


    not using flash, I'd definitely shoot in shutter priority when panning for a motion effect.
    Last edited by merlinextraligh; 06-13-13 at 08:21 AM.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  24. #74
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    f/22 is going to give you a lot of diffraction

    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  25. #75
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    I didn't know about that flash effect with shutter priority, but it makes sense. The last time I tried flashing panned shots, I think that's what burned me, so I dropped the flash for the rest of that session.

    Regarding the diffraction, I've only had to do that for really slow shutter speed, so only a small part of the scene is crisp anyway. Bumping clarity seems to handle it pretty well. No good for stills though.

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