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  1. #26
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    i just ride my bike. this **** is silly
    word.

    /thread
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  2. #27
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastbub View Post
    Rant begin:

    WHY is it almost universally accepted around this place that in order to race crits, you need a bike you can destroy? Do all crits end with a brick wall that you slam into at the finish line? I have raced over 100 crits and yes I have even crashed a few times. Twice I have needed a ride to the ER. Never once did I need to replace my whole bike. Not saying it doesn't happen but it is very unlikely. If you have disposable income to buy multiple bikes in case one of them goes up in flames. You probably have money to buy one to replace the one you wrecked.

    As for the great "deal" you got on it? I am going out on a limb, but I am guessing you are a CAT 5, 4 maybe 3? Bike shops are not in business to give stuff away. You probably got it for less than retail. Sure. So much that it offsets the cost of a second high end bike? I doubt it. If a shop wants you "on their bike" for exposure, they aren't going to find it at an CAT 5/4/3 race. The audience there is husbands/wives/children of the racers who are counting the minutes because they get to go to Chuckee Cheese when this thing is over. Not too many guys are watching the 40 deep CAT 5 race and are saying to themselves "Wow, did you see that monster kill the field sprint? I really need that S3 he is on. Let me go ask him where I can get it."

    Bikes are bikes. Ride yours into the ground and get another as needed. If you want a collection, then just say that. Most racers I know train on their bike. They often times train by commuting on it. (with a backpack and maybe even a frame pump) Then they race that same bike Thursday night and Saturday and Sunday.

    Rant over.

    Sorry had a little extra time to type on my lunch break.

    Rant over.
    it isn't.

    calm down

  3. #28
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastbub View Post
    Can I start a parody thread about how I need to buy a crit body that feels the same as my regular body?

    That way when I crash myself into the ER, I can still go to work in my regular body on Monday?My crit body would have to have better legs lungs and sprint though. Not sure if it is in my budget . I don't want my crit body to be better than my regular body. That would defeat the purpose of having a crit body.

    I better go ask a bunch of people on the internet, that I don't know, what they think.
    you could, sure. though I'm equally sure Jandro would hit you with an infraction.

  4. #29
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    What about crit wheels? I need fast, stiff and aero. Plus, I want them to look cool in all the pictures I find. I want carbon deep dish...just because and for all the breaks I'm in.

  5. #30
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    For the low low price of $500/mo I'll offer you my coaching services to go along with those wheels and guarantee you 50% FTP improvement in ONLY 3 MONTSH!!!
    I'm sure when you were getting to the point of blowing nothing was obvious but making the pain stop...I don't know about you but after the fact I always look back at those moments and think 'why didn't I just keep going' but at the time there wasn't enough oxygen on the planet to make me take one more pedal stroke.

  6. #31
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    you could, sure. though I'm equally sure Jandro would hit you with an infraction.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    For the low low price of $500/mo I'll offer you my coaching services to go along with those wheels and guarantee you 50% FTP improvement in ONLY 3 MONTSH!!!
    Or my money back? Deal!! Look out masters field...

  8. #33
    Senior Member island rider's Avatar
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    FWIW - I started here thinking that people had crit bikes versus road bikes because one was more likely to crash than the other. I realized quickly that was not the case.

    However, I can tell you that I own one bike I tend to race in crits and one that I tend to race on the road. The main difference comes down to a big ring on flat land and a compact in the hills. I have no idea if that is a good idea, a bad idea, or a common or uncommon idea, but no longer care.

    I will, however, take all other possible advice when it comes to equipment, as I will when it comes to tactics, training and nutrition.
    "I think drivers become like dogs when they see a bicycle fly by at 40mph. Instinctively, they just want to give chase, catch them, and eat them." - Papa Tom

  9. #34
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    lol

  10. #35
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Dear OP - I sell bicycles for a living, as well as race bicycles.

    As I see it, you have two options:
    1. Don't buy anything, go race your bike until it ceases to be a functioning bicycle.
    2. Buy things, which you will race until they cease to be functioning bicycles, and then buy more things.

    One of these involves buying an extra bicycle, but all the other steps are the same.
    If you want to buy an additional bicycle with no meaningful value-add to yourself, go ahead. If you came in to my shop I would actively counsel you that this was a poor decision. (my boss is very supportive of intelligent decisions, even when we don't sell a bicycle because of it)

    I've been racing for some years now, so engaging in and spectating at a whole pile of crits, and I've seen so few broken bicycles that I could probably count them on both hands. Thousands of participants+bicycle doing a crit, fewer than 10 bikes demolished.

    Also (and this may blow your mind), if you break your S3, you can get it repaired for a couple hundred $$, yes, 200-300, and it will be stronger than it was before. Look up Predator Carbon Repair, Rukus Carbon Repair, Calfee, ... the list goes on and on... or do it yourself for $50 material and a few hours of your own time.

    The S3 is a fine bicycle, the Cannondale Super series is great, as are the TCRs (or Propel if you like throwing money down and have good connections)...

    My rules for people looking to buy a race bike:
    1. "If you fit it, don't quit it." (I fit wonderfully well on Cannondales, not on Giants - this makes me sad as I'd like a bike from those two brands, but doesn't matter because I already have a bike I will race until it breaks)

    2. "Buy used when reasonably possible, it usually is." - Racer Ex recently sold an SST at a price that made me cry a little... but I already have a bike that fits, so no need to "upgrade". That bike has taken him to a variety of Cat1 podiums (if the photos are correct in my memory), and there's no reason to think that it has somehow gotten slower since thne.

    3. "Get the cheapest reasonable bike available to you." Anyone whose license does not say Cat1 and paid more than 3K for a race bike overbought. (Assuming it came w/ alloy wheels and no powermeter). Any US market, any time of year, there will be both new and used bicycles available to you which will be more bike than you need, at lower prices than 3K. If you want more bike than that, rest assured you won't be getting extra value out of your money.


    So, in conclusion, I congratulate you on your upcoming purchase of either a Cannondale or Giant, apparently without consideration to fitting or extensive test rides.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  11. #36
    Senior Member island rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    Racer Ex recently sold an SST at a price that made me cry a little... but I already have a bike that fits, so no need to "upgrade". That bike has taken him to a variety of Cat1 podiums (if the photos are correct in my memory), and there's no reason to think that it has somehow gotten slower since thne.
    I've read about his exploits. I'm sure he used up all the fast that bike had to offer. Like a space shuttle losing heat shields as it takes off...he trails little bits of fast down the course.
    "I think drivers become like dogs when they see a bicycle fly by at 40mph. Instinctively, they just want to give chase, catch them, and eat them." - Papa Tom

  12. #37
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    Is it common for frames to get ruined in crit crashes? All the ones I've seen have been bar tape, shifters and occasionally front wheels.

    Edit: noticed Hida says it isn't common.

  13. #38
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastbub View Post
    WHY is it almost universally accepted around this place that in order to race crits, you need a bike you can destroy
    Dude, chill. Here. Have a beer. Read the replies carefully. Lots of people saying, one way or another, that they don't think a cheaper crit bike is a sensible purchase. You're not alone. Just try to relax.
    ISO: used, working Shimano 10-speed shifters/groups (6600, 6700, 7800, 7900). PM por favor.

  14. #39
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    I've seen so few broken bicycles that I could probably count them on both hands

    I should clarify this line -
    I've seen more than 10 broken bicycles, I've seen far fewer bicycles that were beyond repair.

    1. Aluminum bicycles - no reasonable way to repair them, but the OP isn't in this situation so I discount it.
    2. Steel and Ti bikes - they can be repaired, it just takes a bit of time and a frame builder... rare to see them so badly damaged that this isn't possible. Again, not the OP's situation, so I discounted it.
    3. Carbon bicycles - The OP's situation, and this is the category where I say, "I've seen fewer than 10 that could not be repaired"

    Hope that helps out~
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  15. #40
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobiensis View Post
    Is it common for frames to get ruined in crit crashes? All the ones I've seen have been bar tape, shifters and occasionally front wheels.

    Edit: noticed Hida says it isn't common.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    I should clarify this line -
    I've seen more than 10 broken bicycles, I've seen far fewer bicycles that were beyond repair.

    1. Aluminum bicycles - no reasonable way to repair them, but the OP isn't in this situation so I discount it.
    2. Steel and Ti bikes - they can be repaired, it just takes a bit of time and a frame builder... rare to see them so badly damaged that this isn't possible. Again, not the OP's situation, so I discounted it.
    3. Carbon bicycles - The OP's situation, and this is the category where I say, "I've seen fewer than 10 that could not be repaired"

    Hope that helps out~
    My favorite irony about carbon fiber is that, for all of the luddite gnashing of teeth about its supposed failings and how you can weld steel frames back together, it is actually the most economical frame material to repair, by far. If I were to really break my steel race bike in a crash, it probably wouldn't be worth fixing.
    ISO: used, working Shimano 10-speed shifters/groups (6600, 6700, 7800, 7900). PM por favor.

  16. #41
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    I don't think any of us can say what is or isn't a sensible purchase for the OP. It's not our money.

  17. #42
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    it is actually the most economical frame material to repair,

    If I were to really break my steel race bike in a crash, it probably wouldn't be worth fixing.
    +1
    +1

    Especially up here w/ all the Boeing carbon knowledge base around here, everyone and their friend just happen to be carbon layup experts.
    I can barely imagine a scenario where my next race bike isn't someone else's broken bike I'll fix. I've seen a literal truckload of S-works level bikes get broken, get sold for $75, then show up at a race 10 days later.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    Dude, chill. Here. Have a beer. Read the replies carefully. Lots of people saying, one way or another, that they don't think a cheaper crit bike is a sensible purchase. You're not alone. Just try to relax.
    Hey guys I am very calm and chilled. I was just poking a little fun at the whole crit bike concept. Kind of at the expense of all those who think they "need" one. Sorry if any feelings are hurt. Racing bikes sure is serious business.

    I hope I don't get one of those "infractions" gsteinb referred to. Not sure what that is, but it sounds like serious business too.
    Last edited by fastbub; 06-27-13 at 02:40 PM. Reason: spelling

  19. #44
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Definition of RANT

    1: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner


    2: to scold vehemently

  20. #45
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    I don't think any of us can say what is or isn't a sensible purchase for the OP. It's not our money.
    Just because it isn't our money doesn't mean we can't say that buying a new bike to race crits isn't a sensible purchase; it's clearly not an economically rational decision to buy a ~$2+k bike because of the small chance the more expensive bike you already have MIGHT get broken in a crash. This is probably less obvious to anyone for whom $2k isn't a huge purchase, much more obvious to anyone for whom it is. Not trying to make a class statement here, only pointing out that if you can afford to contemplate a second race bike in the first place, it's probably easier to rationalize it even if odds are you're going to lose more money than you would just sticking with one bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by fastbub View Post
    Hey guys I am very calm and chilled. I was just poking a little fun at the whole crit bike concept. Kind of at the expense of all those who think they "need" one. Sorry if any feelings are hurt. Racing bikes sure is serious business.
    LOL. The guy who just went on a red-faced rant was just poking a little fun. "What, you guys thought I was really angry? I was just showing you all how silly you are by pretending to go on a furious diatribe against crit bikes. Sure fooled you, you need to take this all a bit less seriously!"
    ISO: used, working Shimano 10-speed shifters/groups (6600, 6700, 7800, 7900). PM por favor.

  21. #46
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    ffs, this thread should be locked..

    gsteinb pretty much answered the question in the second post.
    Cat 1 o-meter: 24/35 points

    Race Ready app | Race Results app | Steephill.ios app

    blog

  22. #47
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    in

  23. #48
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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  24. #49
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    The Giant is a compact frame. Giant basically invented the compact frame. I don't fit well on them as I need a shorter head tube. YMMV.
    The Evo is more of a standard geometry. I fit pretty well on a Supersix, although I never tried an Evo. I like my Felt better. YMMV.

    Oh yeah.

    YMMV.

  25. #50
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    bikes are bikes.

    pick two bikes in the same price range and they're going to be essentially equal.

    fit trumps all else.

    41.


    /thread.
    Only thing missing is the fact that nobody "needs" a crit bike.

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