island rider

I know I am about to get destroyed here, but I don't see the issue. Sure you don't need any particular wheel to race, to compete in races, or to win races, but that wasn't the question. OP never asked what wheels are needed for racing... etc.

OP is looking for something new, plans to use them racing, has a price limit and wanted to get some input from some pretty seasoned people. Seems fair to me. Now, that said, the variables involved make one "right" answer impossible... but if OP has money and wants to spend it on wheels, that's why they make them.

What I was more impressed by was the stunning generosity of his LBS being willing to rent him some 2010 404s for his races. What do you figure, $200 per weekend? Cat 5, one, maybe two races per weekend? Factor in a few DNFs for whatever reason and you have maybe $2k in rental fees before you hit Cat 4. I'd find another shop, if they recommended that I don't think they have your best interest at heart. Sure, they are a for-profit enterprise, but cummon...

I'ma go put on my flame suit now.

teufelhunden222

My equipment list is as follows
2013 Tarmac sport (105 group)
2013 S-Works Crank
2012 Spinergy X-aerolites(1536g)
Specialized turbo pro tires
2013 Specialized Prevail helmet
stainless speedplay Zeros
Specialized Carbon shoes(last years S-works)
Random ass jersey and bibs.
I am not a small guy so I try to look for extra rear stiffness wherever possible aka I break **** when sprinting (pulled a speedplay cleat completly apart)

I was riding a 1984 Specialized Allez that is signed by Jim Merz( Dia Comp Grand Compe groupset)
I flexed it alot, my tarmac is a boatload stiffer but I could feel a good bit of flex in the crank(thats why I have S-works now) and in the stem. I do not know what stem to go to . My backround is in the USMC and in circle track racing. Basically I am looking for ever advantage I can get to make me fast on the down hills and the flats because I am going to get ***** on the hills.-David

Dave Mayer

Here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-sale-38m...ht_6548wt_1241

I'm running something similar in 50mm section. Should have bought the 20s or 38s to save weight. Novatec hubs work great. Buy your Conti Sprinter tires from the UK. Learn how to glue from an old racer. Glue with Vittoria Mastik in the tins. Inject 20cc of Stan's sealant in the rear tire to make it almost inpregnable. On training rides always carry a spare. Prestretch your spare before use.

teufelhunden222

I know I can't run that hub(the novatec). I broke 2 different ones on my steel bike when sprinting. First one the pawls turned to dust, and the second one just sploded(think the axle broke and all hell broke loose from there)

teufelhunden222

I really only have 5 things left on my list
Powermeter
Race wheels
carbon bars
carbon stem
Sram Red group
I mean maybe if the stars align I will get a S-works Tarmac. but thats about a year off.-David

teufelhunden222

Would it be better to just bite the bullet and get a set of enve's 3.4s? Or is the learning curve for riding on tubulars pretty steep?

Duke of Kent

Huh? Why would riding in tubulars be any different than riding on clinchers?

On an MTB or CX bike, yes, it's different. Very different.

And, you'll get 99% of the advantages of deep profile carbon wheels by buying some chinese 50mm tubulars that you would by spending $2000 on a pair of Zipp or ENVE wheels. You can have your local wheelbuilding build up some u-shaped mid or deep profile rims, with a durable rear hub, for less than $600, if you know where to look.

johnybutts

$650 for my 50 mm carbon tubs. Used from last years women pro team. Good hubs. Spin like butter.

teufelhunden222

Becuase I am not 150lbs. I feel like I would destroy the chineese ones, and its not worth 500 bucks to test them when I run the risk of junking my whole bike if they fail. Have you seen any clydes on these chineese clinchers? Believe me, if I thought I could run a 900gram 20mm carbon weight weenie build I would do it. Alot of mtb and downhill guys at my lbs, they swear by enve's carbon wheels. just puts a check in the box for durability.

teufelhunden222

I have never rode tubies so I can only go by theory. A tubular should have a "rounder" profile, larger more predictable contact patch. Plus any weight you can remove from the very outside of the wheel is going to drop the MOI of the wheem by a substantial amount.
I am not sure If I will knock the tubulars out of true, so the internal nipples on a tubular are my only questioning point atm rim wise. I have no idea what hub would be the best, need to make a spreadsheet of flange dia, and widths. I would like a short spoke to make it that much stiffer for the same given spoke tension. the R45 has a pretty large 51mm flange dia. on both sides and the ORC has a 57mmDS and 40mmNDS. I do not think I could go rong ith either of those.-David

DerHoggz

Ambrosio rims, Shimano or Campagnolo hubs, 3 cross spokes and lots of them. Bam, best race wheels.

caloso

There's only one thing on that list which will make you faster, and even then only if used properly.

gsteinb

teufelhunden222

I don't understand. I made a list of thigs I would need when I had my steel bike and I have it about half completed. Why are you poking fun? I am not saying I am going to be cavendish or anything. I just want good stuff. I am trying to learn from your guys mistakes in buying the wrong wheelset.

teufelhunden222

Yes, I am talking to a coach on friday. more than 1 thing though.

gsteinb

Mainly because you haven't even started racing and you're making 'all I need lists.' When of course your have no idea what you need or will need. If you stick with it it's sure to include multitudes of bikes over many seasons. I need some things that haven't been invented yet. But when they are I won't be surprised I need them at least.

Homebrew01

"... carbon stem ... "

So that's why I only got silver last year .... damn, gotta get me one.

Look up the saying "putting the cart before the horse"

And this is the racing forum, where there tends to be a focus on things that actually make a difference: training, tactics, nutrition, preparation ......
Not that equipment doesn't matter, but it sounds like you haven't started racing, and as long as your bike shifts, and the brakes don't rub, then you are good to go.

And what if you do 3 races and decide you don't like it ? Will you be selling your $1500 wheels on Ebay and be lucky to get $900 ? Or worse, you crash and some guy lands on your bike and cracks the rims.

revchuck 

David - What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

You asked about wheels, and got answers from guys (not including me) with 20-30 years experience racing bikes. They weren't the answers that you wanted or expected, so you pushed back. You're in the position of a LCpl arguing with his platoon Gunny, except that these guys can't do wall-to-wall counseling.

Trust these guys. They're not screwing with you, they're trying to point you in the right direction and keep you from pissing away money on things that won't help you race.

I note that you've got a powermeter on your wishlist. For that $1500 budget, you could probably get a Powertap laced into a good, strong, handbuilt set of aluminum wheels and kill two birds with one stone.

HMF

You have good stuff. If you need something stiffer then that's understandable. Buy some used Ksyriums (probably a million pairs on ebay) and race the heck out of them.

IMO the bike is only there because it's a requirement to race. Plenty of guys go with the bare minimum and do quite well. Don't worry about the bike so much; your equipment is not going to hold you back.

island rider

This. But if you want to buy certain stuff, go ahead and buy it.

teufelhunden222

Well sorry if I was being a bit of an ass. I have not been in a very pleasent mood since yesterdays ride. I just don't want to fail horribly on race day #1 . Since I can't seem to find any good information on the fitness level required , or minimum speed, etc. I am trying to optimize the only varible I can really control. As far as the list thing. why wouldnt I try to be as prepared as possible? I do not think I put anything to out of touch on there, and all of it makes sense. If you think something on the list is foolish so be it. But to be laughing at the fact that I am making one is just plain obtuse.

Homebrew01

You have control over plenty of variables:

Training, nutrition, body fat %, tactics, sleep, recovery, race day planning ....

Those will have 99.8 % affect on the outcome of your races. Same goes for the rest of us.

Are you currently riding with faster riders to learn pacing ? Practicing pacelines ? Learning about your body's reaction to stress ? Sprinting ? Comfortable drafting ? blah blah ...... Did you read the "new to racing" sticky at the top of the page ? Did you watch the posted race videos of other newbies and read the comments ?

Nothing wrong with optimal equipment, just don't fool yourself about the effect it will have.

teufelhunden222

ok, you win. I had not read the stickythread. some good info in there-David

Homebrew01

Read the workout recipe thread too

teufelhunden222

It says what to pack in your travel bag. I don't have a travel bag. I have an F250.