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  1. #1
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    A teammate crashed a month ago and now I am getting cold feet b4 every race. Ugh...

    So a teammate went down pretty hard about a month ago(had a bunch of stitches on his face and lots of road rash) when he crashed at about 30mph over some rough terrain. Normally the dude is decent bike handler so it was more of an unlucky/freak situation.

    I did a few races and a practice race since his crash but everytime I lined up, all I could think about was "I really really don't want to crash".

    I've gone down at least 5 or so times, a few were my fault a few weren't. I'm confident in my own handling ability but I worry about a crash happening infront of me that will take me out as well.

    The last practice race I was in, there was a crash behind me...No one got seriously hurt but road rash for sure.

    How do you guys just block this crap out? Ugh...HTFU?
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    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    When I crashed badly the first time I was terrified on all descents. I literally got off the bike and walked corners that looked too steep and sharp. These are corners I can now handle easily at 35mph without touching the brakes. They are barely corners.

    Nothing you can do with your brain but try and get over it. Keep doing rides, keep pushing the edge of comfortable and it will go away.

    If you're a mess in the group rides, don't race. Please wait until you're not a risk for everyone else.

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    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    When I crashed badly the first time I was terrified on all descents. I literally got off the bike and walked corners that looked too steep and sharp. These are corners I can now handle easily at 35mph without touching the brakes. They are barely corners.

    Nothing you can do with your brain but try and get over it. Keep doing rides, keep pushing the edge of comfortable and it will go away.

    If you're a mess in the group rides, don't race. Please wait until you're not a risk for everyone else.
    I feel good on group rides and when I actually race I don't get nervous but all the time leading up to it is when I am just sweating bullets.
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    At least a race crash is not as bad as one involving a car.. so think of how much worse it could be.

    As long as you can start and shake off the bad juju feelings, I think you'll be ok. It's when those feelings are holding you back during the race (or keeping you from racing) that you need to worry.
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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Why are you afraid of crashing?

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    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Worst crashes I had, including fracturing pelvis, happened on training rides. I freaken hate 84 now. After that spectacular wipe out, I was death gripping damn bars, and kept imagining front wheel going out again. Time, and riding the same roads on motorcycle helped, a lot. Now I am back to bombing down, the mountains again. Except that one corner, still take it somewhat easy on it. lol.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

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    It helps to truly understand what made the crash occur, like really exactly. If you understand then you can deal with the cause. If you don't know then you'll become neurotic. Not understanding stuff leads to myths and such.

    I'm sure I back off a bit intentionally. I stopped doing road races in 1997 partly because of the spectacular devastation I'd see on descents. Crits to me seem safer, at least more controlled in terms of speed, traffic, course conditions, etc.

    Drills help. I don't like it when someone touches my front wheel but I can stay upright after doing hours of drills for many weeks 25 years ago. I understand how my bike works, what will take me down, and I avoid those situations if I can. For example I almost never ride when it's starting to ice on the road because my most spectacular crash ever was in such a situation (ice in the shade, no ice in the sun).

    Bumping drills help reduce your Sphere. If you get nervous when people get close then they're in your Sphere. By reducing you Sphere size you will be more relaxed and a better rider. The Sphere, a term I made up, refers to the area around your bars, front wheel, and fork. The smaller your Sphere the better you'll race. For me my Sphere extends an inch or so on either side of my hands and follows the contour of my bike, maybe 4-6" around my front wheel. As an example of a tight Sphere I've stuck my front tire between the rear derailleur cable and the spokes of the rider in front of me, someone I didn't know. The last time I just asked the rider to hold a straight line while I tried drafting closer, but before that I've done it without any mention.

    Drills to fall properly help too. I'd have been pretty bad off in that crash linked above if I didn't know how to tumble, especially since at that time I didn't wear a helmet except to race, and the helmets we wore didn't have any impact protection. Two short sessions (6 months, 10 months, separated by years) of Judo were enough to teach me how to fall. When I finally broke a bone it was because I was curling up as I hit the deck and someone hit my leg. The force of the impact on my leg moved it beyond its range of motion - the tire hit so hard that I actually had blood seeping through the skin in the shape of a tire mark, an inch wide, maybe 6-8 inches tall (I called it road rash but it's really not). Apparently my muscles are anchored well enough that the pelvis broke first, in two places. If I hadn't been hit by another rider then I'd have escaped that crash with a sore shoulder and some road rash. I had no head injury, not much road rash all considering. It was my first broken bone in my life, and the crash happened at the end of my 27th season of racing.

    Knowing how to corner helps. I've rarely run out of road on a switchback or otherwise curvy descent, even descents I don't know that I've done when I'm absolutely fatigued. Before I started racing I crashed really hard because I didn't know the road. I was nervous because I was going so fast (I was chasing a rider on a group ride), I did an early apex, and after two more turns in quick succession I dumped my bike trying to turn sharper than possible. Now my default cornering line is the late apex, a line that gives me the most margin for error. I understand and practice that all the time - when I ride of course but also when I drive, when I am pushing a shopping cart, when I pushed a Matchbox car around my desk, even when I just think of corners.

    Cornering is key to descending - if you see someone that doesn't descend well it's usually because they can't corner. As an example look at Levi, M Rasmussen, they're the worst I've seen in a while.

    Finally you just need to get out there. When I started racing I learned my cornering limits by attacking a corner repeatedly until I fell. I then went back there to keep from being scared of falling. I fell in that same corner, in training, two more times, both when something changed. In one I got sand on my tires but I didn't realize it. I hit the deck as I entered the turn. The last time I fell there (so the third crash in that turn) they'd repaved the road and I didn't notice a paving seam until it was too late. When I hit the seam I hit the deck.

    Having said all that I'm pretty sure I corner well below my bike's threshold now. I've never been in a situation where I think that cornering much faster will benefit me, and when I review my helmet cam clips I see that I'll back off slightly when it's super fast, like unsustainably so. Usually it's not a problem but I still notice it in the clips, even a few feet of gap to me is significant.

  8. #8
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    way too many words.

    **** happens. you can convince yourself you can do this or that to prevent it, but the bottom line is cycling (not just racing) is a complex and volatile activity. conditions are wide and far ranging and arise and pass at a speed and complexity at which the human mind can not grasp. the proximate cause to a crash may simply be that a guy had an argument with his wife the night before and didn't sleep as well as he should have. If you're going to interact with humans on this level bad things can and will eventually happen.

    we are clouds
    and terrible things happen in clouds

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    Last edited by gsteinb; 08-08-13 at 05:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    If you can't handle crashing - quit.

    I used to race motocross. You think the crashes in cycling are bad? Broken femurs are a dime a dozen among most of my friends from those days. That is, if you're lucky enough to break your femur instead of shattering your knee.

  10. #10
    Senior Member topflightpro's Avatar
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    After my last race crash, I was riding a bit tentatively in my next couple of races. But I got over it as I got more comfortable racing again.

  11. #11
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    honestlly, it's something you need to sort out for yourself.

    i like an odds based approach. look at the # of racers on raceday. how many fall down? it's typically a small percentage. of that group, how many got hurt to the point EMS was required, an even smaller percentage. a step further, how many required hospitalization or life changing type injury? a smaller percentage still.

    although this doesnt offer any exclusions, I think it puts some perspective on it.

    everyone has their own individual risk tolerance. we have folks who post here that cave dive (or have), free dive (or have), probably base jump, sky dive, race motorcycles or race cars, etc., things that i think are bat **** crazy; they're outside the level of anxiety i'm comfortable with. i work with people who golf or jog and think riding a bicycle on the road or racing one is bat **** crazy.

  12. #12
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Why are you afraid of crashing?
    I think this is pretty important. I had my third crash this past Sunday and each one gets easier to handle. Granted, I have yet to break some bones but my latest crash was the worst but at the same time I treat my wounds better. I also have less and less fear of crashing as opposed to when I first crashed.

    Some crashes you just can't avoid but generally most people walk away just fine. Sure their are extreme cases but we can also get hit by lightning riding right.
    "whenever I see someone biking faster than me, I assume they aren't going as far"-proscloset

  13. #13
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    I wrecked bad in 2010 crushed my wrist and had a grade 5 ac sep, both required surgery and I came back from that pretty easily. I have seen a ton of crashes though crashed only a few times myself (knock on wood). Being apprehensive and 'worried' about it will create unnecessary anxiety and make you a danger not only to yourself but to others around you. You will overreact to everything. To move past it take stein's approach, **** happens and much of it in this sport in out of your control. Accept it, move on.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  14. #14
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    As long as we're talking odds, consider also out of the guys who crash how many end up with injuries as serious as the ones your friend suffered. Crashing is still no fun, and scary, but when you think about how many end up with nothing more than some bruises and some missing skin, it seems the consequences are often more just painful rather than life-altering. When you look at it that way, pain is just part of bike racing.

    If it helps, much of what happens in bike racing is outside of your control. I have a history of crashing very infrequently in races - up until this year, when I went down four separate times, from March through June. One of those was because I screwed up. The other three were because someone else screwed up and I didn't have room or time to avoid it. For a while I struggled with feeling comfortable in the peloton, but by the time I crashed out for the fourth time, it really didn't have the impact it once did. The fact is, I've done a bunch of races, and usually no one does something to make me crash. When someone does something potentially dangerous, it's usually avoidable. And, well, familiarity breeds contempt, I guess, there's that, too. A guy swung out left pretty hard at Wells Ave a couple weeks ago and caught my wheel. I saw it coming with enough time to go left a bit with him to reduce the impact, leaned on his wheel until I slid off of it, yelled at him a bit (apparently he thought he was avoiding an impending crash, ironically... Total Cat 4 move) and accelerated back into the race. In retrospect, it was a pretty significant wheel touch, but you just reach a point where that's just something that happens and you know how to deal with it. If you get spooked every time something like that happens, you really can't carry on racing. As you race up the categories, things get closer and faster and you will be bumping into people. You have to get used to it.

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    I crashed out back around the first of June. Broken collarbone, some fun bruises, etc. On my first fast group ride afterwards, I hung at the back and got dropped with some others when the speed went up. When getting close to catching back on, a dog ran into the front group and took out two people. Completely freaked me out.

    Later that same ride, I found myself at the very front going very hard and feeling comfortable. In some other group rides since, I've found that when we are going hard I'm comfortable. When the pace eases, I'm uncomfortable. My crash happened when we were going pathetically slow.

    Still working on getting my sphere back down--especially at easier efforts. It's coming, but slowly.

  16. #16
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Worst crashes I had, including fracturing pelvis, happened on training rides. I freaken hate 84 now. After that spectacular wipe out, I was death gripping damn bars, and kept imagining front wheel going out again. Time, and riding the same roads on motorcycle helped, a lot. Now I am back to bombing down, the mountains again. Except that one corner, still take it somewhat easy on it. lol.
    Was it on the winding descent from Woodside on 84?
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    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    Worst crashes I had, including fracturing pelvis, happened on training rides. I freaken hate 84 now. After that spectacular wipe out, I was death gripping damn bars, and kept imagining front wheel going out again. Time, and riding the same roads on motorcycle helped, a lot. Now I am back to bombing down, the mountains again. Except that one corner, still take it somewhat easy on it. lol.
    I haven't gotten hurt that badly, but my first ever real (non-commuting) ride was up and down page mill (2000 ft w/ lots of curves). If you ride it you know there are 3 really sharp turns - 2 in a row and then a bit later another sneaks up on you. Well, it snuck up on me anyway and I was going as fast as I dared, which turned out to be a little too fast. I went a couple feet off the edge and spilled after slowing down just enough to not get worse than some missing skin. But considering I could've easily gone over a cliff instead, I went like 30% slower the next ride. I still take a lot of turns a bit slower than I have to out of caution.

  18. #18
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    Was it on the winding descent from Woodside on 84?
    From Skyline (STP, Alice) to Woodside. One of the almost 180degree turns near the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    I haven't gotten hurt that badly, but my first ever real (non-commuting) ride was up and down page mill (2000 ft w/ lots of curves). If you ride it you know there are 3 really sharp turns - 2 in a row and then a bit later another sneaks up on you. Well, it snuck up on me anyway and I was going as fast as I dared, which turned out to be a little too fast. I went a couple feet off the edge and spilled after slowing down just enough to not get worse than some missing skin. But considering I could've easily gone over a cliff instead, I went like 30% slower the next ride. I still take a lot of turns a bit slower than I have to out of caution.
    Yeah Page Mill is a really bad road to crash on. Glad you were OK.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
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  19. #19
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    In 2010 I had a crash on the track where death was a possibility. I got pile driven into the track shattered my helmet, all the ribs on my right side, punctured and collapsed my lung and needed collar bone surgery. I had major memory loss for most of a day. I spent 4 days in ICU. It's also when I got a PM and started working with Ex. I raced 6 weeks later. Won probably 2 months later. Fear never even occurred to me. Do or don't do. Anything in between and you're a hazard to yourself and anyone out there.

  20. #20
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    ^^ Good pep talk guys. Surely is helping OP get over his fears.

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  21. #21
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    It helps to truly understand what made the crash occur, like really exactly. If you understand then you can deal with the cause. If you don't know then you'll become neurotic. Not understanding stuff leads to myths and such.

    I'm sure I back off a bit intentionally. I stopped doing road races in 1997 partly because of the spectacular devastation I'd see on descents. Crits to me seem safer, at least more controlled in terms of speed, traffic, course conditions, etc.

    Drills help. I don't like it when someone touches my front wheel but I can stay upright after doing hours of drills for many weeks 25 years ago. I understand how my bike works, what will take me down, and I avoid those situations if I can. For example I almost never ride when it's starting to ice on the road because my most spectacular crash ever was in such a situation (ice in the shade, no ice in the sun).

    Bumping drills help reduce your Sphere. If you get nervous when people get close then they're in your Sphere. By reducing you Sphere size you will be more relaxed and a better rider. The Sphere, a term I made up, refers to the area around your bars, front wheel, and fork. The smaller your Sphere the better you'll race. For me my Sphere extends an inch or so on either side of my hands and follows the contour of my bike, maybe 4-6" around my front wheel. As an example of a tight Sphere I've stuck my front tire between the rear derailleur cable and the spokes of the rider in front of me, someone I didn't know. The last time I just asked the rider to hold a straight line while I tried drafting closer, but before that I've done it without any mention.

    Drills to fall properly help too. I'd have been pretty bad off in that crash linked above if I didn't know how to tumble, especially since at that time I didn't wear a helmet except to race, and the helmets we wore didn't have any impact protection. Two short sessions (6 months, 10 months, separated by years) of Judo were enough to teach me how to fall. When I finally broke a bone it was because I was curling up as I hit the deck and someone hit my leg. The force of the impact on my leg moved it beyond its range of motion - the tire hit so hard that I actually had blood seeping through the skin in the shape of a tire mark, an inch wide, maybe 6-8 inches tall (I called it road rash but it's really not). Apparently my muscles are anchored well enough that the pelvis broke first, in two places. If I hadn't been hit by another rider then I'd have escaped that crash with a sore shoulder and some road rash. I had no head injury, not much road rash all considering. It was my first broken bone in my life, and the crash happened at the end of my 27th season of racing.

    Knowing how to corner helps. I've rarely run out of road on a switchback or otherwise curvy descent, even descents I don't know that I've done when I'm absolutely fatigued. Before I started racing I crashed really hard because I didn't know the road. I was nervous because I was going so fast (I was chasing a rider on a group ride), I did an early apex, and after two more turns in quick succession I dumped my bike trying to turn sharper than possible. Now my default cornering line is the late apex, a line that gives me the most margin for error. I understand and practice that all the time - when I ride of course but also when I drive, when I am pushing a shopping cart, when I pushed a Matchbox car around my desk, even when I just think of corners.

    Cornering is key to descending - if you see someone that doesn't descend well it's usually because they can't corner. As an example look at Levi, M Rasmussen, they're the worst I've seen in a while.

    Finally you just need to get out there. When I started racing I learned my cornering limits by attacking a corner repeatedly until I fell. I then went back there to keep from being scared of falling. I fell in that same corner, in training, two more times, both when something changed. In one I got sand on my tires but I didn't realize it. I hit the deck as I entered the turn. The last time I fell there (so the third crash in that turn) they'd repaved the road and I didn't notice a paving seam until it was too late. When I hit the seam I hit the deck.

    Having said all that I'm pretty sure I corner well below my bike's threshold now. I've never been in a situation where I think that cornering much faster will benefit me, and when I review my helmet cam clips I see that I'll back off slightly when it's super fast, like unsustainably so. Usually it's not a problem but I still notice it in the clips, even a few feet of gap to me is significant.
    Great feedback as usual CDR, thanks!
    -Cat-3-o-meter: 8/20

  22. #22
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    ^^ Good pep talk guys. Surely is helping OP get over his fears.
    in all candor I don't view my role as helping someone get over their fears. things are as they are. race or quit....it doesn't matter to me either way.

  23. #23
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    ^^ Good pep talk guys. Surely is helping OP get over his fears.
    No problem...

    I think what we are trying to do (again there is a ton of experience here commenting) is to show:
    1. That a major injury is a reality in this sport
    2. That most of us have been there
    3. That with time wounds (both mental and physical) heal
    4. That if you cannot get past someone else's, or your own, wreck that you become a danger to yourself and all around you
    5. That Gary is a tough little Hobbit

    I watched my wife almost die in a motorcycle wreck in 2009. I continued to ride for a year after that, learned from what happened and used it as an anchor or reality check as to what could happen while riding like a maniac.

    SOmetimes to hear stories from more experienced riders, their thoughts, how they overcame the issue and the re-assurance that you can move on is a powerful tool to help someone that doesn't have the experience (both in life and on the bike) to work through it on their own.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  24. #24
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Fear is an illusion.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  25. #25
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jandro View Post
    Fear is an illusion.
    If I were standing in front of you it would not appear that way...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

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