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  1. #51
    Cat 5 Mod Jandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Offseason is upon us...
    All threads will be derailed...
    Oh goodie.

    /straps in

    My meek understanding of how fitness works is that you build your base with miles and then on top of that you build your interval fitness with... intervals. The latter form can drop off during the offseason (or even during the season) but that's ok because you can train it back up reasonably quickly. The former, however, doesn't drop off and nothing but miles can build it. Longer, less intense, hours in the saddle seem to be ideal for these base miles (from what I've read/had people tell me).

    That being said, I'd listen to the older contingent of racers/posters here. Athletes don't always make the best coaches but athletes that win consistently probably know a thing or two about training regimens that work. Will they be perfect for OP? Maybe. They're a damn good place to start, though.
    Attack in the feeling because it says I'll win absolutely.

  2. #52
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jandro View Post
    My meek understanding of how fitness works
    this is what I read when I started "real training" - fill the right raise the left.

    again, my only support for it working is that it's worked for me. ride lots, do whatever, make sure you have intensity.



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  3. #53
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    Oh, see, that part was not me being sassy. That's my actual advice from my n=1 experience. I've only raced for a few years, but I've had success in each of the years doing a JRA-a lot approach. I don't follow a specific plan or do intervals, but I do lots of group rides and get intensity and z5+ time from them.

    And you are my bro. We're not on the same wavelength just yet, but we're both coming from genuine places. I wasn't being cynical saying "it doesn't matter". I was being honest saying "it doesn't matter as long as you're having fun and if you want to race your idea of fun will end up being productive riding" - which I see now was unclear, and so I revised it in further posts.

    Also, I'm not trying to offend you, but I linked my results as to explain why I feel that my advice was sound, i.e. it has been working for me, not to say that "you must do as I do to have any success". I believe there are many successful training plans, probably as many as there are successful athletes. I don't care if you have won every single race you've entered, I'm still going to judge posts and advice based on the post and advice. The best coaches were often middling athletes who had to study the game to overcome what they physically lacked. Jordan being GOAT doesn't make him a good owner.

    I already rolled over and apologized to OP if I came across as too snarky. If I do it any harder I'll trickle out a few drops of pee. OP even edited his original post to an appropriate length, clearly a good guy.
    I didn't take what you said as 'sassy' I was saying it's misleading and ultimately not really an 'approach.' Yes, folks can have varying levels of 'success' doing a JRA plan. Some of that is simply based on natural abilities. Some guys go to cat 2 or 1 just based on natural talent. One might find that as they reach their natural limiters if they want to continue to improve they have to focus on the kinds of training that actually support what ever the needs of their specific discipline are. For instance, I do some criteriums. Since that's my focus, a lot of JRA long road rides aren't going to really support my advancement there. Focusing on the kind of workouts that replicate what I see in races makes more sense. It's also a great deal more efficient, and as an old guy racing on a high level with other responsibilities that makes a bit more sense.

    But here we're also looking at how one defines success. Success to one isn't success to another. So you linking your results to explain to a handful of cat 1s why your advice is sound really just elicits a collective forum groan. So yeah, JRA is less painful and more fun, but there are well documented ways to better skin that cat and they don't have to 'not be fun.'

    So yes, in answer to the OP's question...now is a time to rest, recharge, heal. Have fun. There's time for structure and working limiters, but the week after the season ends probably isn't it.

  4. #54
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post

    So yes, in answer to the OP's question...now is a time to rest, recharge, heal. Have fun. There's time for structure and working limiters, but the week after the season ends probably isn't it.
    Agreed. Build some base, have some fun, enjoy the sport for what it is and always will be, a hobby...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  5. #55
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    What's an off-season? The day after my last cross race I hit the skis. While it may not be riding my ski races are threshold for the entire duration and my long days on the weekends are 40-55km typically. Once the weather is a bit nicer in Feb or March I start putting in more road miles. I'm too old for an "Off season" and losing my fitness.

    Pre off-season is cross - duh!

  6. #56
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    .

    But here we're also looking at how one defines success. Success to one isn't success to another. So you linking your results to explain to a handful of cat 1s why your advice is sound really just elicits a collective forum groan.
    We got off track. You wrote that my approach would lead to poor results. I linked only to support why _I_ like it, in that it has worked well for at least me.

    I'm just going to go back to the politics threads.

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  7. #57
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
    Pre off-season is cross - duh!
    fly in the ointment/
    'cross IS my season...racing the mtb is my base-building
    /fly in the ointment

  8. #58
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    OP, what I do when I call it quits is JRA. Base training is still training. Just Ride Around. Keep the time down to 5-10 hours/week. Resist the temptation to use what's left of your form to beat up on recreational riders on long rides. Rest is paramount.
    I got you beat with 3hrs/week (mostly from my commute). Though no idea if i'm actually rested, though i hope to be.




    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    this time of the year is "transition" for me. i try to do some running or other cross training for overall health benefits of varying my routine. i think this time of the year is good for actually trying to lose some weight (if needed), clamping down on the diet more because you dont need food as much for training/recovery, getting some things done that you've neglected because of racing schedules (like work around your house or other projects) and doing JRA because it's a nice time of the year to do so (at least where I live).


    i dont understand the "its the offseason so now i can eat bad and drink more beer" position. that's the jan ulrich approach.

    hmm, maybe that's what i 'm doing wrong. Wore my bibs a total of four times since end of August

  9. #59
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    fly in the ointment/
    'cross IS my season...racing the mtb is my base-building
    /fly in the ointment
    never knew you were a wire fan.

  10. #60
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    never knew you were a wire fan.
    you got me buddy...I dont know what that means.

  11. #61
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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  12. #62
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    meh

    thats worse than ha ha Tonka.

  13. #63
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    awesome. not 'hey thanks for thinking me,' but instead 'why would you bother me I hate that.'

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
    What's an off-season? The day after my last cross race I hit the skis. While it may not be riding my ski races are threshold for the entire duration and my long days on the weekends are 40-55km typically. Once the weather is a bit nicer in Feb or March I start putting in more road miles. I'm too old for an "Off season" and losing my fitness.

    Pre off-season is cross - duh!
    braggard

  15. #65
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    awesome. not 'hey thanks for thinking me,' but instead 'why would you bother me I hate that.'

    dont be fussy, you know Im playin!

  16. #66
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
    What's an off-season? The day after my last cross race I hit the skis. While it may not be riding my ski races are threshold for the entire duration and my long days on the weekends are 40-55km typically. Once the weather is a bit nicer in Feb or March I start putting in more road miles. I'm too old for an "Off season" and losing my fitness.

    Pre off-season is cross - duh!
    Without proper planning, that will catch up with you. Lots of guys around here, pros especially, race road and cross, but they are smart about it.

  17. #67
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    this time of the year is "transition" for me. i try to do some running or other cross training for overall health benefits of varying my routine. i think this time of the year is good for actually trying to lose some weight (if needed), clamping down on the diet more because you dont need food as much for training/recovery, getting some things done that you've neglected because of racing schedules (like work around your house or other projects) and doing JRA because it's a nice time of the year to do so (at least where I live).

    i dont understand the "its the offseason so now i can eat bad and drink more beer" position. that's the jan ulrich approach.
    in the past i've gained a decent amount of weight in the fall by not watching my diet and riding less and always struggled to lose it all in base season. this year, i've tightened by diet up a lot and plan to start "working out" a lot sooner than normal. i took one week completely off for mental rest but was going to start cross training/8-10hrs/week of riding this week, but a cold/something has prevented that. that being said, weight wise i'm in a much better spot right now than i've ever been in.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Without proper planning, that will catch up with you. Lots of guys around here, pros especially, race road and cross, but they are smart about it.
    I agree with that. My hours decrease but I try to keep up some intensity. I really think changing modalities is huge. My summer season wasn't that hard - I did 4 stage races and a few one day road and MTB races so nothing too much. My cross season has started and I go every weekend until mid December. By then the snow will be awesome and I'll get the skis out. I love nordic skiing and it will take me a few weeks to get used to workload - without a fall of roller skiing I come in way behind many others. With the switch from road, MTB, cross and skiing I really never get too mentally tired and I work my body in different ways. Seems to work well for me.

  19. #69
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
    I agree with that. My hours decrease but I try to keep up some intensity. I really think changing modalities is huge. My summer season wasn't that hard - I did 4 stage races and a few one day road and MTB races so nothing too much. My cross season has started and I go every weekend until mid December. By then the snow will be awesome and I'll get the skis out. I love nordic skiing and it will take me a few weeks to get used to workload - without a fall of roller skiing I come in way behind many others. With the switch from road, MTB, cross and skiing I really never get too mentally tired and I work my body in different ways. Seems to work well for me.
    That's how we did it. Road season wrapped up in early September, we then mountain biked through the fall, skiied through the winter then ramped up bike work in late winter.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  20. #70
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Started doing yoga almost everyday. Legs are tired, and some muscles/tendons are slightly pulled. Perfect for some off season cross training.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  21. #71
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    you got me buddy...I dont know what that means.

  22. #72
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    deja vu.

  23. #73
    . botto's Avatar
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    i found 38 other versions...

  24. #74
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    one was bad enough.

  25. #75
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    one was bad enough.
    you seriously never heard of them?

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