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  1. #26
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    Completely unrelated to topic but is the guy's saddle in the image posted pointed almost straight down?

  2. #27
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    Also, I think (from what I remember) that trainerroad is generally reasonably precise, but not very accurate. Those numbers could be 30w or 40w off

  3. #28
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Honestly, assuming those numbers are real (easy to mess that up when getting them from a trainer curve, frankly), I don't see any strengths. Work on the 1hr to 5min part of the curve for a start if your intent is on road races. Sets of 2x20min with 5 minutes in between is a good place to start. You aren't going to win a climbing race, even in the 5s, with an FTP of 3.1W/kg. Get the book "racing and training with a powermeter". Even if you don't have a powermeter, just using the concepts illustrated in the book and power estimates from trainer curves or hill intervals makes it useful.

    The only thing wrong with the ewang chart is people taking the "cat5, 4, 3, ..." labels too seriously. It's a generally helpful chart otherwise, especially for finding your relative strengths and weaknesses.
    Yeah, if the labels were serious, I'd have cat 2 strength for 5 to 20 minutes - and half the 5s I race against are higher.

  4. #29
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post

    I saw this rider in the P123 race Sunday. I figured he was a 3 just playing around but it ends up he's a good rider. Not just a good rider, he made the second group (a chase), then he was THE ONLY one to bridge from the second group to the break (which had, at that point, lapped the field). I don't know his power numbers but he's obviously thought about his position, figured out how to make his ideas work, and he's executed on them.

    He has that Adam Hansen type position - 38cm bars, ultra low front end, high/forward saddle. He started the race with two super tall wheels but had to change the rear at some point. In the picture above he's bridging to the break, so it's deep into the race.

    I guess all that stuff above is saying "peak power is probably inaccurate, work on that, work on optimizing your position so you use your power as efficiently as possible."
    i went to high school with him. Former rower turned cyclist. PA state TT champ, i believe.
    That bike is actually a Cervelo P2 painted black.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ips0803 View Post
    Completely unrelated to topic but is the guy's saddle in the image posted pointed almost straight down?
    I think it's pretty level from what I recall. I don't know if I got shots of him out of the saddle but I'm pretty sure I did.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    i went to high school with him. Former rower turned cyclist. PA state TT champ, i believe.
    That bike is actually a Cervelo P2 painted black.
    Is he the son of a relatively famous race promoter? I thought it was but then I wasn't sure.

  7. #32
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    If he were, it'd be news to me. To be sure, we are talking about rider who finished 12th at the CT Cycling Festival , correct?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmD View Post
    The "local" crit is about an hour from my house - it's a pain to drive an hour to do a 30-minute crit and drive an hour home. I'd rather ride for 2 and 1/2 hours instead.
    From personal experience - you'll get more benefit from a 30 minute crit than from a 2-1/2 hour solo ride. It works your body differently, but more importantly, it gives you race experience. It won't be identical to the experience from a road race, but it's way more than you'll get from riding alone.

    In my part of the country, there's a stage race per month during the season. It usually involves a 3-4 hour drive each way for the majority of the racers, plus two nights in a motel. You're fortunate to have crits that close, that often. Shoot, I drive a hour each way for group rides.
    Regards,
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    Demain, on roule!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    If he were, it'd be news to me. To be sure, we are talking about rider who finished 12th at the CT Cycling Festival , correct?
    The rider I was talking about got 9th so it couldn't be him (the break was 6, plus that one guy that bridged). Now that I'm looking at the results I don't know who it was that bridged. I'll need to look at the pictures I took and see if I can see a bib number.

  10. #35
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    If he were, it'd be news to me. To be sure, we are talking about rider who finished 12th at the CT Cycling Festival , correct?
    considering results are posted publicly online what's the point of saying something like that as opposed to just saying the dudes name?
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    it depends

  11. #36
    Senior Member globecanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    considering results are posted publicly online what's the point of saying something like that as opposed to just saying the dudes name?
    confounding teh google
    Ninny

  12. #37
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    why not be coy when you can be coy.

    I can't figure out how he got his bars that low, and the top tube is not short. What's the trick here.

    twitter.com/ygduf
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  13. #38
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    The rider I was talking about got 9th so it couldn't be him (the break was 6, plus that one guy that bridged). Now that I'm looking at the results I don't know who it was that bridged. I'll need to look at the pictures I took and see if I can see a bib number.
    The guy in the picture on the first page is wearing a skin suit from Breakaway Bikes/QCW, which is a team based out of Philly. The top finisher wearing a Breakaway Bikes kit finished 12th on the day in CT. You can see the ghosted out "Cervelo" lettering on the down tube. I've actually seen him racing on Easton 56's and I'm fairly certain that it's him.

    -----

    As to why go with the circumlocution, well, if you really want to know, nothing's there to stop you. But my bet is that most won't look up the results.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    why not be coy when you can be coy.

    I can't figure out how he got his bars that low, and the top tube is not short. What's the trick here.
    Regular training regime from the Kama Sutra.

  15. #40
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I would take a good hard look at your weight first. We are all built differently, but I am the same height and 20 pounds lighter than you.

  16. #41
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Lose weight, ride bike, dont suck. My simpleplan to not be terrible at this sport
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  17. #42
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    cdr i've raced against that guy before. he's super strong. great guy to follow in a draft though, he's really tall.

  18. #43
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    considering results are posted publicly online what's the point of saying something like that as opposed to just saying the dudes name?
    also, why are we discussing someone who got 12th??

    is that good?

  19. #44
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    also, why are we discussing someone who got 12th??

    is that good?
    depends. the results don't tell everything. not to mention the field was stacked (isaac howe, ben wolfe, at least one foundation guy, maybe more).
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    it depends

  20. #45
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    Many foundation guys and riding pretty aggressively/physically. Hincapie Dev.

    I like this shot of the last turn (my pic):


    - Ben Wolfe, obscured by Hincapie Dev rider in center (Ben has a white helmet)
    - Isaac Howe, 2nd wheel, going to win
    - Foundation rider, first wheel, huge leadout, huge team help, 2nd
    - Foundation leadout man (last one), arm visible to the left
    - Champ Sys rider going sideways
    - Hincape Development riders, two of them, both place top 7 (white kits, red band on sleeve, black helmets)
    - Ex-7-Up pro, on Champ Sys rider's wheel, not sure which brother it is

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmD View Post
    Isn't it possible to get faster without doing a lot of racing? Best case scenario is that I can do a crit every other week over the summer - but is that really going to prepare me for a 5-hour long race? The "local" crit is about an hour from my house - it's a pain to drive an hour to do a 30-minute crit and drive an hour home. I'd rather ride for 2 and 1/2 hours instead.
    Back on topic. One of the things that even a 30 minute training crit will do is it'll teach you to sit on wheels better (hopefully). Drafting represents virtually the biggest gain you can make, for free, in a mass start race (the other is cornering, especially in a road race with twisty descents). I'm not saying that training solo won't make you stronger - it can and it probably will. However, no matter how strong you are solo you can always go much, much, much faster if you're sitting on a wheel. If you can't sit on a wheel, if you don't feel comfortable holding position behind someone, then all that training won't mean a thing.

    For example say you manage to improve your avg speed, based on your wattages, from 17 mph to 19 mph. You're more efficient, you use the right gears, etc. However you're going to average, at worst, 22-23 mph, and at best 25-28 mph. With your power it should be easy to average 27 mph in a crit, like easy peasy. You won't need to open your mouth to breathe, it'll be that easy.

    If it's NOT that easy then you need to work on all the stuff that has nothing to do with training. You have the training, the FTP. I'm guessing your short term power is higher than your numbers indicate. Based on that you should easily be able to do a Cat 2 flat 4 corner crit, even a national class one like Tour of Somerville. In that crit, as a 2, I averaged about 175w until I got caught behind a crash on the last lap.

    If you're a 5 then you have all sorts of stuff you can work on that have nothing to do with fitness. Heck, in the last race where I made it to the finish I made a huge, huge, huge mistake. I went from thinking about winning the field sprint to totally sitting up, in a matter of maybe 50-75 meters, due to a tactical error.

    My fitness didn't change. My tactics failed. Therefore I was done. Given the exact same fitness, if I was literally 5-6 feet over at a certain point, I'd have been gunning for the field sprint (for 7th place).

    So the biggest weakness would be in your race craft.

    There are undeniable things like w/kg - given your FTP and weight you're probably not cut out to be a climbing god, not at this point, and your short term numbers (which, again, are probably artificially low) won't let you do the shorter power climbs very easily. I'll average 500-600w on a 20 second hill to maintain position, and if your numbers are accurate you'd be going backward. When it's hard I'm more in the 600-800w range, and in the sprint 1000w for just under 20 seconds.

    Don't let the peak numbers scare you either. I've also won races without breaking 1000w, leading out the sprint even, but again, that was a race where race craft really came into play (raining, race got called early, so I gambled on an early sprint).

  22. #47
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    Many foundation guys and riding pretty aggressively/physically. Hincapie Dev.

    I like this shot of the last turn (my pic):


    - Ben Wolfe, obscured by Hincapie Dev rider in center (Ben has a white helmet)
    - Isaac Howe, 2nd wheel, going to win
    - Foundation rider, first wheel, huge leadout, huge team help, 2nd
    - Foundation leadout man (last one), arm visible to the left
    - Champ Sys rider going sideways
    - Hincape Development riders, two of them, both place top 7 (white kits, red band on sleeve, black helmets)
    - Ex-7-Up pro, on Champ Sys rider's wheel, not sure which brother it is
    Great pic...
    Riders scattering like cockroaches...
    Lot o fast guys there..
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  23. #48
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    Lose weight, ride bike, dont suck. My simpleplan to not be terrible at this sport
    Didn't you say you pay $100 a month for that plan. That's a good deal....
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  24. #49
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    Is he the son of a relatively famous race promoter? I thought it was but then I wasn't sure.
    Is there such thing a famous race promoter, let alone a relatively famous one?

  25. #50
    Formerly edwardmatt83
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    Thanks for the help guys. I think I do need to work on my short term power numbers. I have always been terrible at the shorter efforts. Losing weight will obviously help too - I've never been able to drop below 160, but I will try to over the winter. Trying to talk my wife into letting me race more crits - it's going to be tough with kid number 3 on the way in March. Also for the 20 minute intervals - should I stop at 2x20? Does it make sense to do 3 or more - or is that overkill?

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