Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-13, 08:52 PM   #226
jsutkeepspining
Senior Member
 
jsutkeepspining's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ohioland/right near hicville farmtown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if serious, yes his glasses broke when he made contact with the tree.

if not, just remember kid, you could shoot an eye out with that thing.
jsutkeepspining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:22 AM   #227
tetonrider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
speaking of high speed crashes, at nationals the guy right in front of me went into a tree at 63 mph. He lost an eye. Be careful out there.
if he hit a tree at 63mph, he's lucky to have only lost an eye. usually helmets (cycling or even DH-skiing, that is) do not matter at that speed.
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 04:00 AM   #228
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,828
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
if serious, yes his glasses broke when he made contact with the tree.

if not, just remember kid, you could shoot an eye out with that thing.
Dude, this isn't homeroom. Why wouldn't I be serious? That's messed up, horribly unfortunate, and lucky and rolled into one.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 07:46 AM   #229
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by newjunior View Post
Get a six pack
Win 1/5 Target races
Help teammates win another 2
55mph downhill Palomares road
You're an idiot, but you're a junior, so that's expected.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 09:54 AM   #230
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
win a race, then another, and then another
2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
podium at district masters 35+ crit
podium at district masters 35+ rr
finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 11:14 AM   #231
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,481
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
Hi, Racer Ex. I appreciate your perspective . I wonder if you could expound somewhat on your last paragraph, provide an example, or whatever.
Example: You want to get better at TT's, because you're doing a lot of stage racing and it's a huge factor in GC.

You like doing sprint intervals though. And hate doing 20 minute intervals. And your TT bike needs some work on the fit. So you go out and do sprint intervals, and maybe once a week you'll do a 20 minute interval. When you go on group rides rather than sit on the front and pull the field around, you sit in and wait for the sprints. You justify both of these actions by telling yourself you want to keep your sprint sharp and hey, you did that one 20m interval last week so you don't want to overdo it.

Then you get 56th in the TT and tell everyone how you suck at TT's.

What you needed to do was get on the TT bike, and hammer out a bunch of 20 minute intervals. You need to work on pacing, and ride all the TT's you can. Not the entire solution, but an example of more appropriate training to get good at TT's.

That's the self directed fib.

The external misstep is listening to bad advice. You are going to race a bunch of 40 minute crits and one road race next year. You go through the threads and see lots of advice to "ride lots" and people talking about big base rides. Or you have a clueless coach who has you doing 5 hour mountain rides. So you do this. You come into the first crit and get spit out the back. And the second. And you also notice you're tired.

What you should have been doing was high intensity, short, sharp efforts, working on your sprint, Etc.

The human body is pretty malleable. I had a teammate who had done RAAM a bunch of times, then decided he wanted to become a sprinter. He worked with weights and on sprint drills. They ended up force upgrading him out of the 4's because he kept taking all the primes. He wasn't going to improve his sprint doing RAAM training. He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.

While this seems obvious stated as such, people are pretty good at pretzel logic. A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 11:31 AM   #232
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 5,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".
sig-worthy.
Creakyknees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 11:32 AM   #233
Ygduf 
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Posts: 9,316
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.
If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
__________________

twitter.com/ygduf
strava.com/athletes/ygduf
Ygduf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:14 PM   #234
echappist 
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 8,709
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
win a race, then another, and then another
2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
podium at district masters 35+ crit
podium at district masters 35+ rr
finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)
Wait, what's this race you are talking about in earlyMay? Poolesville? A break actually can survive there?
echappist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:17 PM   #235
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:24 PM   #236
Ygduf 
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Posts: 9,316
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.
I finished last season well, I use strategy to affect races to suit better what I'm good at, seeding breaks and sustaining them. That sort of thing.

But there are times when it would be advantageous for me to have a little more snap and acceleration. Getting a gap so I'm not dragging 5 guys with me across a bridge effort, or at the end of the race when the 5-man break is sprinting for placings, that sort of stuff.

I would guess the key is to actually work on that duration effort and try to build muscle/improve technique. But I've never thought about how much time, or how many times/week (2? 3? add a little in on every day?), would be the best to improve it.
__________________

twitter.com/ygduf
strava.com/athletes/ygduf
Ygduf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:31 PM   #237
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by echappist View Post
Wait, what's this race you are talking about in earlyMay? Poolesville? A break actually can survive there?
correct, Poolesville HS road race, breaks always survive there.

other poolesville race, now called All American Bicycle Center RR, used to be called the Murad Road Race. Lots of breaks have survived there also (all categories) despite that it's a pretty flat profile.
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:34 PM   #238
echappist 
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 8,709
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Is this race a crash fest? Quite a bit of DNFs.

if it's a breakaway course, i may give it a shot, if nothing else, for training
echappist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:38 PM   #239
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
poolesville a crash fest? no. although i crashed there once, same day i got hit by a car warming up.

DNFs are because it's a hard race!

and echappist, what am I ever going to do with you. EVERY course can be a breakaway course. the racers make the race.

are you going to join a team this year or what?
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:38 PM   #240
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,665
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
I would start with lots of sprints. A slight uphill always helps me really keep the power down while not being spun out.

Also try going for the sprints on Spectrum ride or something similar. That part will help you with getting comfortable in close quarters while ramping up/sprinting, and also timing/positioning. Timing and positioning are probably just as important as the actual numbers you put down, if not moreso.

Hitting the weights would probably help too.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:48 PM   #241
tetonrider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.
i've read that lots of hours coupled with weekly attempts on climbs to move up 10 spots on strava can make people 'not suck'. just hearsay, but there are a TON of posts about that protocol. the friend's mileage may vary, of course.
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:49 PM   #242
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
snarky, snarky, snarky
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:51 PM   #243
echappist 
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 8,709
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
poolesville a crash fest? no. although i crashed there once, same day i got hit by a car warming up.

DNFs are because it's a hard race!

and echappist, what am I ever going to do with you. EVERY course can be a breakaway course. the racers make the race.

are you going to join a team this year or what?
Thinking of it. I guess now would be the time to do it? I know you guys were looking for cat-2s. What about zaftig cat-3's?
echappist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:53 PM   #244
tetonrider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
win a race, then another, and then another
2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
podium at district masters 35+ crit
podium at district masters 35+ rr
finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)
pretty specific goals. cool to read!

isn't it interesting how the goals that my prove to be the most challenging are often not the ones that sound (to someone else) the most impressive?

also, nice to read some specifics. hard to objectively measure how 'aggressive' one is, but maybe it's like pornography….you know it when you see it.
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 12:55 PM   #245
tetonrider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by echappist View Post
Thinking of it. I guess now would be the time to do it? I know you guys were looking for cat-2s. What about zaftig cat-3's?
is this a men's or women's team? i love me some echapp, but when he starts using yiddish, things can go awry.

(zaftig's really about women, but i've, uh, never met you in person, and, uh, maybe this is your way of announcing some life changes. )
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 01:18 PM   #246
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I would start with lots of sprints. A slight uphill always helps me really keep the power down while not being spun out.

Also try going for the sprints on Spectrum ride or something similar. That part will help you with getting comfortable in close quarters while ramping up/sprinting, and also timing/positioning. Timing and positioning are probably just as important as the actual numbers you put down, if not moreso.

Hitting the weights would probably help too.
Yep. I usually like to sprint from the valley between two hills. Right when the climb starts to slow me, I nail it. I think that's good for building the strength. Certainly a good idea to sprint on flats and downhills too though, to make sure you know how to produce there.

6x15" sprints, once per week should be plenty. 5' or more between them, as it takes that long before the lactate starts clearing. By the 6th one, you should start to feel a little nauseous from all the work your liver is doing to keep your blood clean. This goes away after a few minutes though.

Also, with a goal of getting a separation, are you jumping from the front, or back a ways? Always better to have a 5mph advantage on the front guys when they first see you. Are you sure you're putting in a maximal effort for the separations? How does the first 5" look compared to your best?
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 01:21 PM   #247
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
wait--you must be inferring something i didn't say! i can't help it if you infer something.

hater.

it's my internet persona
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 01:48 PM   #248
tetonrider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
it's my internet persona
oh lord.

i heard someone once did a group ride with you and thought you were 'a good guy'.

maybe you can find me on Facebook and prove to me -- via another online means -- how well-rounded you are? until then, i'll reserve judgment.
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 01:52 PM   #249
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,828
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
I actually raced with him. He seemed 'ok.'
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-13, 02:07 PM   #250
dave42
Senior Member
 
dave42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: E TN MTS
Bikes: 1989 TREK 400, Suntour accushift drivetrain. 80's Raleigh mtb all Suntour.
Posts: 258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
Example: You want to get better at TT's, because you're doing a lot of stage racing and it's a huge factor in GC.

You like doing sprint intervals though. And hate doing 20 minute intervals. And your TT bike needs some work on the fit. So you go out and do sprint intervals, and maybe once a week you'll do a 20 minute interval. When you go on group rides rather than sit on the front and pull the field around, you sit in and wait for the sprints. You justify both of these actions by telling yourself you want to keep your sprint sharp and hey, you did that one 20m interval last week so you don't want to overdo it.

Then you get 56th in the TT and tell everyone how you suck at TT's.

What you needed to do was get on the TT bike, and hammer out a bunch of 20 minute intervals. You need to work on pacing, and ride all the TT's you can. Not the entire solution, but an example of more appropriate training to get good at TT's.

That's the self directed fib.

The external misstep is listening to bad advice. You are going to race a bunch of 40 minute crits and one road race next year. You go through the threads and see lots of advice to "ride lots" and people talking about big base rides. Or you have a clueless coach who has you doing 5 hour mountain rides. So you do this. You come into the first crit and get spit out the back. And the second. And you also notice you're tired.

What you should have been doing was high intensity, short, sharp efforts, working on your sprint, Etc.

The human body is pretty malleable. I had a teammate who had done RAAM a bunch of times, then decided he wanted to become a sprinter. He worked with weights and on sprint drills. They ended up force upgrading him out of the 4's because he kept taking all the primes. He wasn't going to improve his sprint doing RAAM training. He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.

While this seems obvious stated as such, people are pretty good at pretzel logic. A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".
Makes sense. Thank you.
dave42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 AM.