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  1. #226
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    if serious, yes his glasses broke when he made contact with the tree.

    if not, just remember kid, you could shoot an eye out with that thing.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    speaking of high speed crashes, at nationals the guy right in front of me went into a tree at 63 mph. He lost an eye. Be careful out there.
    if he hit a tree at 63mph, he's lucky to have only lost an eye. usually helmets (cycling or even DH-skiing, that is) do not matter at that speed.

  3. #228
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    if serious, yes his glasses broke when he made contact with the tree.

    if not, just remember kid, you could shoot an eye out with that thing.
    Dude, this isn't homeroom. Why wouldn't I be serious? That's messed up, horribly unfortunate, and lucky and rolled into one.

  4. #229
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newjunior View Post
    Get a six pack
    Win 1/5 Target races
    Help teammates win another 2
    55mph downhill Palomares road
    You're an idiot, but you're a junior, so that's expected.

  5. #230
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    2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

    race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
    win a race, then another, and then another
    2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
    make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
    sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
    podium at district masters 35+ crit
    podium at district masters 35+ rr
    finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)

  6. #231
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave42 View Post
    Hi, Racer Ex. I appreciate your perspective . I wonder if you could expound somewhat on your last paragraph, provide an example, or whatever.
    Example: You want to get better at TT's, because you're doing a lot of stage racing and it's a huge factor in GC.

    You like doing sprint intervals though. And hate doing 20 minute intervals. And your TT bike needs some work on the fit. So you go out and do sprint intervals, and maybe once a week you'll do a 20 minute interval. When you go on group rides rather than sit on the front and pull the field around, you sit in and wait for the sprints. You justify both of these actions by telling yourself you want to keep your sprint sharp and hey, you did that one 20m interval last week so you don't want to overdo it.

    Then you get 56th in the TT and tell everyone how you suck at TT's.

    What you needed to do was get on the TT bike, and hammer out a bunch of 20 minute intervals. You need to work on pacing, and ride all the TT's you can. Not the entire solution, but an example of more appropriate training to get good at TT's.

    That's the self directed fib.

    The external misstep is listening to bad advice. You are going to race a bunch of 40 minute crits and one road race next year. You go through the threads and see lots of advice to "ride lots" and people talking about big base rides. Or you have a clueless coach who has you doing 5 hour mountain rides. So you do this. You come into the first crit and get spit out the back. And the second. And you also notice you're tired.

    What you should have been doing was high intensity, short, sharp efforts, working on your sprint, Etc.

    The human body is pretty malleable. I had a teammate who had done RAAM a bunch of times, then decided he wanted to become a sprinter. He worked with weights and on sprint drills. They ended up force upgrading him out of the 4's because he kept taking all the primes. He wasn't going to improve his sprint doing RAAM training. He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.

    While this seems obvious stated as such, people are pretty good at pretzel logic. A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".

  7. #232
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".
    sig-worthy.
    "have fun and be kind"
    - an internet post

  8. #233
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.
    If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.

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  9. #234
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

    race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
    win a race, then another, and then another
    2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
    make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
    sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
    podium at district masters 35+ crit
    podium at district masters 35+ rr
    finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)
    Wait, what's this race you are talking about in earlyMay? Poolesville? A break actually can survive there?

  10. #235
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
    Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

    It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.

  11. #236
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

    It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.
    I finished last season well, I use strategy to affect races to suit better what I'm good at, seeding breaks and sustaining them. That sort of thing.

    But there are times when it would be advantageous for me to have a little more snap and acceleration. Getting a gap so I'm not dragging 5 guys with me across a bridge effort, or at the end of the race when the 5-man break is sprinting for placings, that sort of stuff.

    I would guess the key is to actually work on that duration effort and try to build muscle/improve technique. But I've never thought about how much time, or how many times/week (2? 3? add a little in on every day?), would be the best to improve it.

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  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    Wait, what's this race you are talking about in earlyMay? Poolesville? A break actually can survive there?
    correct, Poolesville HS road race, breaks always survive there.

    other poolesville race, now called All American Bicycle Center RR, used to be called the Murad Road Race. Lots of breaks have survived there also (all categories) despite that it's a pretty flat profile.

  13. #238
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Is this race a crash fest? Quite a bit of DNFs.

    if it's a breakaway course, i may give it a shot, if nothing else, for training

  14. #239
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    poolesville a crash fest? no. although i crashed there once, same day i got hit by a car warming up.

    DNFs are because it's a hard race!

    and echappist, what am I ever going to do with you. EVERY course can be a breakaway course. the racers make the race.

    are you going to join a team this year or what?

  15. #240
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
    I would start with lots of sprints. A slight uphill always helps me really keep the power down while not being spun out.

    Also try going for the sprints on Spectrum ride or something similar. That part will help you with getting comfortable in close quarters while ramping up/sprinting, and also timing/positioning. Timing and positioning are probably just as important as the actual numbers you put down, if not moreso.

    Hitting the weights would probably help too.
    cat 1.

    blog

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    If someone hypothetically was pretty decent at 2min, but terrible at 20s, what sort of time/type of interval/and reps per week would prescribe to them? Hypothetically.
    Well, what's the goal? Why is this "friend" not winning races (what are the limiters)? Can strategy be changed to make better use of the 2' strength?

    It sounds like the goal is to improve 20" power, but I don't understand why.
    i've read that lots of hours coupled with weekly attempts on climbs to move up 10 spots on strava can make people 'not suck'. just hearsay, but there are a TON of posts about that protocol. the friend's mileage may vary, of course.

  17. #242
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    snarky, snarky, snarky

  18. #243
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    poolesville a crash fest? no. although i crashed there once, same day i got hit by a car warming up.

    DNFs are because it's a hard race!

    and echappist, what am I ever going to do with you. EVERY course can be a breakaway course. the racers make the race.

    are you going to join a team this year or what?
    Thinking of it. I guess now would be the time to do it? I know you guys were looking for cat-2s. What about zaftig cat-3's?

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    2014 goals that I sent to my coach - I'm refining as some of these aren't specific enough and these are all in a vacuum meaning they ignore the context of team success, which will impact some of the results oriented goals:

    race aggressively as an integral part of the elite team i'm on and contribute to our success
    win a race, then another, and then another
    2 peak season - 1st peak in May/2nd late July/early August
    make winning break at <local> road race in May (this is a P12 race and a favorite race by many in our area, it's probably my biggest "stretch" goal)
    sub 56 minutes at 40K TT (i'll need to shave almost 2' off my existing time but existing time was actually 1st 40K TT I've ever done so I thnk it's doable although it's also a stretch goal)
    podium at district masters 35+ crit
    podium at district masters 35+ rr
    finish with main group at district sr rr championship (this is a climby race and usually has representation from guys - kids - who race nationally so this might be my most outlandish goal believe it or not)
    pretty specific goals. cool to read!

    isn't it interesting how the goals that my prove to be the most challenging are often not the ones that sound (to someone else) the most impressive?

    also, nice to read some specifics. hard to objectively measure how 'aggressive' one is, but maybe it's like pornography….you know it when you see it.

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    Thinking of it. I guess now would be the time to do it? I know you guys were looking for cat-2s. What about zaftig cat-3's?
    is this a men's or women's team? i love me some echapp, but when he starts using yiddish, things can go awry.

    (zaftig's really about women, but i've, uh, never met you in person, and, uh, maybe this is your way of announcing some life changes. )

  21. #246
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    I would start with lots of sprints. A slight uphill always helps me really keep the power down while not being spun out.

    Also try going for the sprints on Spectrum ride or something similar. That part will help you with getting comfortable in close quarters while ramping up/sprinting, and also timing/positioning. Timing and positioning are probably just as important as the actual numbers you put down, if not moreso.

    Hitting the weights would probably help too.
    Yep. I usually like to sprint from the valley between two hills. Right when the climb starts to slow me, I nail it. I think that's good for building the strength. Certainly a good idea to sprint on flats and downhills too though, to make sure you know how to produce there.

    6x15" sprints, once per week should be plenty. 5' or more between them, as it takes that long before the lactate starts clearing. By the 6th one, you should start to feel a little nauseous from all the work your liver is doing to keep your blood clean. This goes away after a few minutes though.

    Also, with a goal of getting a separation, are you jumping from the front, or back a ways? Always better to have a 5mph advantage on the front guys when they first see you. Are you sure you're putting in a maximal effort for the separations? How does the first 5" look compared to your best?

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    wait--you must be inferring something i didn't say! i can't help it if you infer something.

    hater.

    it's my internet persona

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    it's my internet persona
    oh lord.

    i heard someone once did a group ride with you and thought you were 'a good guy'.

    maybe you can find me on Facebook and prove to me -- via another online means -- how well-rounded you are? until then, i'll reserve judgment.

  24. #249
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I actually raced with him. He seemed 'ok.'

  25. #250
    Senior Member dave42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Example: You want to get better at TT's, because you're doing a lot of stage racing and it's a huge factor in GC.

    You like doing sprint intervals though. And hate doing 20 minute intervals. And your TT bike needs some work on the fit. So you go out and do sprint intervals, and maybe once a week you'll do a 20 minute interval. When you go on group rides rather than sit on the front and pull the field around, you sit in and wait for the sprints. You justify both of these actions by telling yourself you want to keep your sprint sharp and hey, you did that one 20m interval last week so you don't want to overdo it.

    Then you get 56th in the TT and tell everyone how you suck at TT's.

    What you needed to do was get on the TT bike, and hammer out a bunch of 20 minute intervals. You need to work on pacing, and ride all the TT's you can. Not the entire solution, but an example of more appropriate training to get good at TT's.

    That's the self directed fib.

    The external misstep is listening to bad advice. You are going to race a bunch of 40 minute crits and one road race next year. You go through the threads and see lots of advice to "ride lots" and people talking about big base rides. Or you have a clueless coach who has you doing 5 hour mountain rides. So you do this. You come into the first crit and get spit out the back. And the second. And you also notice you're tired.

    What you should have been doing was high intensity, short, sharp efforts, working on your sprint, Etc.

    The human body is pretty malleable. I had a teammate who had done RAAM a bunch of times, then decided he wanted to become a sprinter. He worked with weights and on sprint drills. They ended up force upgrading him out of the 4's because he kept taking all the primes. He wasn't going to improve his sprint doing RAAM training. He had a training bucket (time/stamina) that was "X" big. He put the right stuff in the bucket.

    While this seems obvious stated as such, people are pretty good at pretzel logic. A fair bit of the advice on this forum should end with "because that's what I like to do". The better stuff to follow is "because that's what produced success".
    Makes sense. Thank you.

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